Largest Galactic Empires known in Sci-Fi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_empire https://orionsarm.com/ https://www.barnesandnoble.com/blog/sci-fi-fantasy/6-galactic-empires-more-fascinating-than-star-wars/ Can anybody recommend any very large Galactic Empires of interest. Something with formational structure and economy with a good depth and feel to it? Norfolk nChance
I think one the most broad-sweeping empires I've read in Science Fiction is the one found in David Brinn's Uplift series. Broad-sweeping in sense of physical space (spanning several galactic clusters), number of alien species we meet and with whom we engage in the length of the story, and in time, given that the cultures involved in the Uplift supra-culture measure time in spans of millions of years.
Does it have to be limited to a galaxy? In Frank Herbert's Dune, humanity has a universe-spanning empire.
Your Honored Matres are a defilement of the true sisterhood! No, but for real... That was one of the things I enjoyed about the Duniverse. Its huge breadth of time from the first book to the last written by Frank himself. By the time of Chapterhouse, the era of Paul and Jessica is pretty much mythological. His Void books are like that too. Huge jumps in time between one and the next.
Revelation Space https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revelation_Space_universe Alistair Reynolds is one of my favourites. The use of more grounded future science concepts makes his stories so much more real. The largely absent FTL magic replaced with the Light Hugger Ships is brilliant. Humans evolving along different paths and uplift moments with pigs make sense. I would read them in chronological order but you’ll need the novellas and short story lists as well. The Culture https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Culture_(series) Iain M. Banks was gone before his time. His Culture society spread across the Milky-Way with a various mix of humanoids, aliens with the back bone, a very advanced 9,000-year-old AI society. The AIs are the minds of massive Culture ships. The funny names given to these General System Vehicles and other classes reflect that AI Minds personality… Just Read the Instructions and Of Course I Still Love you are two popular General Contact Units or GCUs from the book Player of Games. Adding the dry comedy, The Culture is a complete opposite intone to the Revelation Space Universe. Both massive in scale and depth giving a feel of emersion are two of my favourite Large Galactic Empires… Norfolk
In Asimov’s “The Last Question” humanity spreads out to cover the entire known universe. To such a degree that they don’t even know which galaxy they came from (but they can ask the master computer.)
The Empire of Man of Warhammer 40k. It's eternally stagnating on the verge of total destruction, so vast entire planets can be annihilated without anyone taking notice. There are automated factories producing machines, but the knowledge of how and why has been long since lost. Space ships are like flying and shooting Gothic cathedrals. It's what inspired the grimdark genre. The franchise is so old and popular that there is plenty of material with extremely developed lore.
Galactic Civilization, or just The Civilization, from the Lensman series. It was FUCKING ENORMOUS in scale. To put this in perspective: their standing navy was made up of "one-million units" which is explicitly stated to be one-million individual FLEETS, one for each of their worlds, and each made up of at least seventy or eighty ships, some more, for a force of 80,000,000 to 100,000,000 ships. Their basic battleships were called "Super Dreadnoughts" and were literally the size of the Supremacy from Last Jedi and designed to blow up planets--because one of the primary weapons they wielded in that setting was planet-sized FTL missiles that could travel between galaxies. They ruled, if I recall, at least two galaxies outright, or more specifically they basically were a military dictatorship and anyone who fucked with them ended up reliving the Red Wedding. Oh yeah, and their idea of a "superweapon" were called Sunbeams, entire solar systems turned into lasers capable of obliterating enemy star systems from the other side of the fucking universe, and they regularly employed antimatter bombs the size of PLANETS called Nega-Spheres or Nega-Bombs (I forgot the exact terminology, you'll excuse me) and they were basically giant globes of antimatter held in force fields they threw at enemy planets and fleets at FTL speeds. The fact that their enemies, the Boskonian Empire, were equal or possibly it's implied LARGER in scale, and Boskoke was ruled and founded by nigh-omniscient beings from another universe and could muster "hundreds of thousands" of wormholes launching "thousands" of ships each in just one battle shows you why Civilization needed such a fucking huge military: they were fighting Gods. The Civilization ruled a million planets outright but, realistically, they had at least two if I recall entire galaxies under their direct control. There WERE inferred to be other factions, but they kept their mouths shut and did whatever the Lensmen (an elite caste of psychic knights with Lenses that gave them precognition and energy manipulation powers, like Jedi with Green Lantern rings) told them to do because if they didn't...well, you try discussing politics with a Civilization that has a fleet of tens of millions of Death Stars. They also explicitly mentioned some kind of fighters too, if memory serves, so they probably could muster TENS OF MILLIONS of what we would call like X-wings. Realistically the Galactic Civilization would wipe the floor with, say, the Culture or the Imperium of Man...and I say that as a fan of both Lensmen as well as the Culture and WH40K. Oddly enough, the dude who wrote the series, Doc E.E. Smith, wrote an even more powerful race into another of his series, Skylark of Space, which would have laughed off the Galactic Civilization like it wasn't even there.
Ninja edit: Oh btw, their kinda "mobile capital" was called the Directrix (or Directorix, I forget) which was basically a moon-sized mobile battlefortress the size of a Death Star and which controlled in real time their entire navy, like a giant supercomputer/fortress.
I actually find that Doc Smith was one of the few sci-fi writers who had a true understanding of what scale was, he didn't concoct some scenario where we all unify together in some post-scarcity utopia, he realistically showed what an intergalactic military dictatorship would look like--and more over, gave a good reason for it, namely they were locked in a ceaseless war with godlike alien entities who wielded an empire that could shatter galaxies.
The Q Continuum from Star Trek encompasses the entire universe, in both space and time. They could appear and move anywhere in space and time. I think one of their fugitives hid for a while at the moment of the Big Bang. With completely mastery of the universe, they found themselves bored. Some of them haven’t even spoken in millions of years.
In John Scalzi's old man's war series the Colonial Union's (humans) empire isn't all that big but the Conclave (a sort of UN of alien species) covers pretty much the entire universe
The Roman Empire may be an interesting source to look to in terms of how such a large empire could be managed, and which dynamics would make it unwieldy and subject to fracture. A few interesting events in history: The Crisis of the third century, when the Roman Empire broke up for a while due to an inability of centralized authority to hold it together: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_of_the_Third_Century Diocletian, who reformed the empire and split it formally in two, so that it could still be governed without warring with itself. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diocletian The Gothic war, when Justinian tried to retaken the fallen west. And succeeded, at the price of crippling his own empire. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_War_(535–554) Many of the events in Foundation are based on this. The idea that economic forces may be inevitable in their result, no matter attempts to change history. An empire that is sufficiently large to make travel and communication difficult would likely fracture, if not structured in such a way as to distribute power and align incentives towards keeping it together.
Not to mention the Mercatoria in The Algebraist, which pretty much controlled the entire Milky Way, barring those pockets under the control of the Beyonders. And while Dweller society wasn't really imperial, IIRC they did have a presence on almost every gas giant in the galaxy, save for those few that were too dry to be comfortable, like Jupiter and Saturn. ETA: Not to mention the Dwellers' "Long Journey" expedition
Hey Guys and Girls - Happy New Year and all that, Some Great Empires mentioned much appreciated. @Wreybies Spoiler Uplift & Exiles two book Saga, was mammoth in words and scale. The CORE idea of Uplift and the Humans uplifting apes and dolphins was thought provoking indeed. The Dolphins much better adapted for space flight. We are not the center of the Universe and I really liked the way Brin brings Humans into the Galactic fold to still find politics, greed and many more traits always assumed to be exclusive to mankind. Took two girlfriends worth of time to complete this long work... @Nariac Spoiler Dune, I liked all the media adaptation Movies, mini-series (Barbora Kodetova as Chani) and first book etc. However, and I can’t answer why I never went on to read the other books. Probably I should try them or at least the Void series as @Wreybies suggests... @newjerseyrunner Spoiler The Last Question, a short story was supposedly Asimov’s favorite even above The Bicentennial Man. It’s a great story and ultimate in scale with a now classic ending. A brilliant read... ... am sure the late Douglas Adams also would agree... The Q from Star Trek. Your point is spot on “With completely mastery of the universe, they found themselves bored. Some of them haven’t even spoken in millions of years.” Why do we as Humans feel the need to explore? Beyond some certain point geographical discovery becomes bland and predictable. Working mechanical knowledge plateaus also... boredom sets in unless we are Empire Building... hmmm.... @FifthofAscalante Spoiler The Warhammer 40k Universe I’ve a very weak knowledge of and need to research. The vastness in scale and a believable economy with a middle ages type of Religious domineering power does intrigue. On the Human side of drop ships and Space Marines feels gritty and dark with equal match foe. I will look at this area more to understand the drives and politics of this massive franchise. @18-Till-I-Die Spoiler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lensman_series Wow I need to look at this one. Came 2nd Hugo award for Best All-Time Series in 1966 (the 1st Asimov’s Foundation series). The dynamics and drives of the Eddorians and Arisians feels something like Iain M. Banks would like. The Civilization does feel very Culture-ish... The Star Wars Universe I’ve noticed the books and TV sets give better background building now. How why and who built and paid for the Star Destroyers etc. Setting a workable Galactic economy that seems semi possible... I like your later comments on Doc Smith on understanding scale... @Matt E Spoiler The Roman Empire... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire I keep looking at this time and again regarding the Rise and Fall of an Empire and the vacuum it left afterwards. The drive of Caesar to bring home a PRIZE and nearly bankrupting himself bribing politicians for support. The post by @newjerseyrunner regarding The Q becoming bored rings home. In my response and the same here, the Romans stopped discovery for knowledge but continued to push forward to gain internal power within Rome. This is how I’d see a Level 3 Cavillations need to expand beyond its own Local Group. Unless it gains kudos at home its not worth the effort. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_Scarrow At a coal facing man-in-the-street level, Simon Scarrow Roman series I liked. The two main characters Cato and Macro are in the Roman army starting in 42AD. They see life from all geographical parts of the Empire with a macro timeline background. Combining these two different aspects in scale on the same timeline in a Sci-Fi Opera is very hard to achieve. @Iain Aschendale Spoiler The Algebraist wasn’t my favorite Banks novel but The Dwellers again a great example of a super Galactic civilization. Here like The Q or The Roman Empire they, the Dwellers become bored with knowledge even evolving into Slow Time. If they didn’t, I believe they would have gone extinct. The Roman Empire, similar achieved or plateaued in knowledge for its time. The drive turning to Conquer for kudos back home eventually leading to an internal collapsed. The collapsed being more internal rather than external forces inward as knowledge is lost or set back. We move into the DARK AGES... Banks reflection of anti-AI in the story is similar... Again, big thank you for all the posts. You’ve giving loads of new avenues to explore Thank-you Norfolk.
@Norfolk nChance It's survival. The Imperium of Man is a horrible place, but if they flinch, humanity will be put through the grinder and eaten. And then whatever does that will be shoved into the grinder and eaten as well. The only one capable of making a change would be the nigh immortal emperor, who hated the idea of theocracy but is now worshipped as a god. Alas, his body is forever tied to the Golden Throne, which keeps him from dying. While, his mind must forever focus on the warp, enabling interstellar travel without which the civilisation would disintegrate. In his "absence", over the course of ten millennia, his regents and retainers, far behind the godly Emperor in any kind of prowess, have twisted the humanity in every which way to hold the dangers from without at bay. Space Marines aren't really human. They are humanoid monstrosities. Edit: Another universe you might want to look into is the Legend of the Galactic Heroes. An old Japanese book series / anime. It is a more... down to the earth depiction of what an interstellar human civilisation might look like. The way it's written is like a fictional history lesson. Politics is very much the primary and secondary focus. One of the main themes is the conflict between benevolent autocracy and malignant democracy. I am watching the anime myself, and I wholeheartedly recommend it with the caveat that it has that Japanese cheeseness, and the beginning was kind of dry. Many criticise it for poor animation. I think the visuals are dated but stellar (once again, pun totally intended). You realise this especially after a quick comparison with the recent remake.
@Norfolk nChance Lensmen was really what got me into Sci-Fi, and one of the kinda founding principles for my own writing style. One thing I also loved was that Doc Smith went into painstaking detail about the technology and setting and backstory of the universe, without going into any kind of lore-dump more than once or twice, instead he goes into explanations almost ad hoc as he went along. The first time the jump gates they use for FTL are introduced, he explains it almost as it is happening IN THE STORY almost like it's real time, and so the characters are discovering the uses and nature of these wormhole jumpgate things just as the reader is. And it kinda also brushes aside some of the silly-er Star Trek "everyone in the future holds hands and sings One Tin Soldier while unicorns fly us to the moon on rainbows" utopia aspects of a post-scarcity, showing that while The Civilization is indeed a post-scarcity society they're not some utopian fantasy. They're in essence a military dictatorship, vaguely fascistic even, and basically ruled by the Lensmen who act as the de facto noble class by virtue of their psychic power--it's like a more realistic version of the Jedi if like Yoda ran across a copy of Joseph Stalin's writings in a museum about Earth That Was and he was like "Hmm...in principle, socialism works, yes." And honestly the way it's described kinda paints The Civilization as being founded like that. The aspect of scale is also like one of the few things that, outside of say The Culture or the Imperium of Man, most Sci-Fi writers miss. For example I adore Star Wars (pre-Last Jedi) but saying something absurd like "the Empire had 25,000 ships" when you also go on and say that the Empire controlled THE ENTIRE GALAXY. And while perhaps The Civilization or The Culture can obviously seem "op", that's because they're depicted as an actual post-scarcity. galaxy-spanning empire would work like if they were in a war with another post-scarcity, galaxy-spanning empire. I.e., they have literally INFINITE resources, but they're fighting an enemy with equal or greater material resources (the Boskonian Empire were able to attack Earth and Arisia directly with "hundreds of thousands" of wormholes launching "thousands" of ships each in just one big battle, so at a bare minimum a couple hundred MILLION ships, most the size of a super star destroyer...in ONE BATTLE) so by comparison The Civilization actually is kinda coming up short. Mind they also had literally millions of "spare" planets laying around so they fling them at one another like faster-than-light ICBMs. It's kinda sounds crazy until you remember, they're two empires who rule their respective galaxies, so this isn't a huge cost to them.
I started a new thread, link below along similar lines. Would love to hear all your thoughts and opinions Norfolk https://www.writingforums.org/threads/problem-world-building-a-realistic-galactic-empire.160699/
"Universe" in Dune is a term to express a totality of human existence in their part of the galaxy, not "universe" in the cosmological sense. It is being used like "world" as in "world leader" - not world as in planet.
