I know there have been many thread on plotters and pantsers, but I'm wondering if any of you wish you could work the other way sometimes. I'm a 100 percent pantser. I literally sit down to write having no idea what I'm doing. When I write I feel like I'm on autopilot. And I never no my ending until the last line comes and I get the feeling "This is it." Bam! Story done. I've written three (unpublished) novels this way. Well, my first novel about halfway through I started to worry about length so I looked at what I had and figured out how many more chapters I would need so I planned a little with what I thought were cool chapter titles. It was sort of the steps I needed to finish. I was young when I wrote that one. And I can say this is the closest to an outline I ever did even if the story wasn't exactly mapped out for me. I have not used any approach like this since. (Well, I did have to create an annotated table of contents for a nonfiction proposal, but I never actually finished writing that book). My two other novels were completely pantsed. And much better than the first, IMO. I also like to write pretty complex short stories. I'm not exactly sure how I do it, but this autopilot way of working does seem to work for me. However, I do like the idea of plotting and really working through the story to make sure it's a good one. But I just find it so hard to tell a story that way. A few times when I have tried plotting I just end up writing the story in a very early in an attempt to create an outline or I never write the story. I think in theory it makes sense to outline, but in practice it just doesn't work for me. I still wonder if plotters have it easier. Easy is not the right word (it has proven to be something I don't do well with), but I hope you understand what I'm saying. Do you ever feel like the grass is greener on the other side? I'm sure many of us have tried different approaches, but at the end of the day somethings work for a writer and others don't. I don't think it matters how you get there. Are you happy being a plotter or a pantser? Have you found what works for you? Or are you still trying things out?
I don't think I'm 100% a plotter, but I'm definitely far further up that end of the spectrum. If I don't know where I'm going I find it very hard to get moving at all. Doesn't mean the plan can't or won't change halfway through writing, but it has to exist before I start. Occasionally I wish I was better at pantsing - mostly when what I thought was a decent outline turns out to be full of holes or just boring to write - but mostly I'm pretty happy with how I do things.
I used to be a total pantser (as much as a dislike that term) discovery writer, but I've been studying and messing around with plotting techniques and finding them extremely helpful. My goal is to find a halfway-between path, or something similar. Plot to whatever extent I need to, but leave plenty of wiggle room for making decisions on the fly.
I have the general premise/ideas rambling around in my head with a basic direction towards an ending. Then I just start writing. So, an organized discovery writer?
I've tried to be a plotter, but work so much better as a pantser. I CAN plot and i HAVE plotted.... but I dont really like it. I dont feel creative when I do it. I will outline in the form of notes... like, lets say I have to go off and do something and I dont have the time to write out my scene or idea. I'll jot down bullet points as to where I was going to take that scene so that i can come back to it after the chore or task. Earlier on when I started on WF, I plotted stuffs. I guess I just found my rhythm over the years as a discovery writer
I'm still very much in the "figuring out my process" phase, but I probably lean closer to plotter than pantser (though, like Xoic, I'm not a big fan of the terms - I prefer George R. R. Martin's "architect" and "gardener"). Total pantsing only works for me with very short/simple stories; for anything longer than flash fiction, I usually start in pantsing/gardening mode with a basic idea, then write myself into the story until the ideas really start flowing. Then I get lost and jumbled in all the chaos of possibility and need to stop and organize my thoughts, usually in the form of a basic outline, listing the scenes I think I need, what I want them to accomplish, etc. Then I can go forward and write them. Lather, rinse, repeat until done. I think the key to outlining is to keep it very sparse so that you can write to it without losing the sense of spontaneity - for me, it's basically a list of goals, or maybe simple driving directions that can keep me on the road while I focus on finding the really awesome stuff in the scenery along the way. And hey, sometimes I find a cool detour, too.
Like Antpoems, I prefer the terms architect/gardener. Pantser makes me think of diapers or some guy sliding down a talus slope on his butt. Plotters are bad guys planning mischief in a suspense novel. As a fiction writer, I'm a gardener with a solid background in landscaping. I know where the paths, borders, and trellises need to go, but I'm perfectly willing to redirect paths, curve the borders, and toss the trellises out all together once the growing season gets under way. As a nonfiction writer, I adore making outlines, complete with Roman numerals and nuanced subsections. Once the article outline is complete, I turn the information into prose and fill in the blanks.
I think it's always interesting to see how other writers work. For me, any attempts of outline have proven harder than just writing. I love the idea of going through notes and mapping out some sort of brilliant story. But I almost never write myself notes much beyond a to-do list. And that way of writing is just not the way it works for me. Being a pantser it's sort of a weird feeling to just write. Do I have a story? Can I do this? Will it make sense? Am I making any sense? It might be just me that can feel a bit panicked going into a writing session. By imagine a plotter probably sits down to write with a bit more confidence, reassured by their presswork and already believing their story is there. I don't really think we have much of a say in how create our works. Our brains just all work differently when it comes to our writing processes. I'm really not to sure there's much if any wiggle room when it comes down to the best strategy for each of us to tackle this art form.
I can plot as much as I want, but when it comes to actually writing the thing—especially the beginning—it feels like I have no idea what I'm doing and I'm walking a tightrope with no balance pole. The shift from macro-level (big picture) to micro (the actual story) is massive. Whether I plot something or not I do a sort of in-between stage before I start the writing. Maybe two stages. Sometimes I'll make a series of notes, and sometimes I skip that part. But before I write the actual chapter I do a dry run. I write it in summary form. I know this isn't the actual story, so I'm not trying to get good wording or anything, I just go, so then I can see the general shape of it. This might be what some people call a zero draft, I'm not sure. And usually even on my first draft I'm not worried about getting everything right. I know once I've got the ideas down in general form my mind will dream on them and when I come back to re-write I'll have a much better idea how to approach it. Often my first re-write gets into too much detail, I try to show too much, and/or I write a lot of stuff that isn't essential to the story. So then I trim it down, or just re-write it again, or some combination of the two. Recently I've started analyzing the scene beats just in general, to try to find what the emotional core of the scene is, and that lets me know what needs to stay or go and what needs to be changed to bring it in line with the emotional tone I'm looking for. Analyzing the beats is very new to my process though, I'm not sure how well it's going to work. It really tightened up a scene I was working on recently, but I'll see if it keeps working like that. So I guess you could say I approach it through a series of iterations, each coming more into focus.
I suggest James Scott Bell's book "Super Structure" for this discussion. He discusses key points in a story, and addresses how to use them for both plotting and pantsing. As much as I enjoy panting, I find the problem with that approach is having to do rewrites to fill in any plot holes I find.
Interesting notion. From the perspective of a planner, I think that kind of mental frolic in the grass (which I've certainly had in the past) would come when the plot schematic is felt to be binding more than stimulating. That's a trap that I used to fall into, such that I needed to stick to the plan simply because I made one, and that deviation was a form of failure. Since then, I've managed to whip myself into seeing an outline or plot as constructive instead of constrictive. It follows that I don't consider there to be more freedom in pantsing, simply different work at different times, and I'd rather get the hard work figured out first in the form of planning. Eat the vegetables then the pasta sort of thing.
I like my vegetables and pasta mixed together with a generous sprinkling of parmesan and butter. I agree that having an outline/plot need not be constrictive. One can always change the basic plan as new ideas come to mind.
Oh absolutely—an outline or running summary is a working tool, you need to keep it updated as your ideas grow and develop. It makes it easy to keep track of the storyline as it mutates into whatever it's becoming.
Having tried both, I do not. What I thought would be my first book has been floating face down at 20K for years. I was discovery writing with some scattered notes and a vague idea of an ending in mind, but I can't get there. I have ideas about what's supposed to happen next, but freeze up completely and can't make decisions. I outlined the hell out of my next attempt, spent a month or two just perfecting every bit of it. I changed my mind on plenty of details while I was writing but otherwise stuck to the plan and made it all the way to "The End." I'm very proud of that one. Long form project number 3 had an outline, but I deviated so far from it that I was discovery writing again. I made it to 80K that time before I got stuck, maybe for good. I feel artistically paralyzed when I try to write anything more on that one. I believe you're right that we don't get to choose. I'm an architect. That's how my brain works. My current WIP is outlined and doing fine, so no, I don't envy discovery writers. I think you have a much more difficult job. Is the cat dead? You don't know until you open the box. I get to make that decision ahead of time and change my mind as many times as I want until I know I have it right, all before putting down a single paragraph. I don't have to massively edit chapters if something isn't working. I get to do the big edits on the outline. This is true a lot of the time, especially if the writing has been progressing well so far. Still, fulfilling the expectations you set out with can be extremely daunting, panic-inducing even. It's also easy to leave out key details in an outline. The worst thing I ever did to myself while outlining was write the words "They fall in love." I got there and realized I had a shit ton of writing to do to cover those four words. It was a serious pain but also a valuable lesson not to hand wave anything in the blueprint stage.
Ants get in pants, if I am to believe colloquilisms. (Hmm. That turned out not sounding quite like I meant it. I love it when that happens.)
Ahem... Silliness aside, one thing that occurred to me since my first reply to this thread is that I mostly write speculative fiction, and it can be really hard to pants both plot and worldbuilding simultaneously. I had to stop my most recent fantasy story after a scene or two so I could figure out how wizards are trained because I kept coming up with conflicting ideas about which direction the story should head depending on the details. I'm sure there are discovery writers who can manage all that and just smooth it out in the edit, but the anxiety of not knowing gets to me too much.
That can be a large issue. If discovery writing is your preferred style, then use it to your advantage. Write a few scenes along each path, then see which path fits best with your vision.
I do a bit of both! I write out a general plot with the biggest story things and then add in subplots and scenes I think up as I go along, which I feel works best for me
