The titles a bit unclear, but I want to research about a book which changes style due to character progression. Basically, I'm experimenting with an idea where one of my character is a noble and she finds her situation radically change due to change in circumstance. So imagine her and maybe even the book sort of talking like Jane Austen (not specifically that proper) but then having to adapt with her new environment she'd become much more colloqiual over time and the story reads slightly differently. Bonus point if she has to adjust by having to confront her past rigid world (which would be the ultimate aim of this character's arc progression for me). Is there any novel that sort of does this with a very distinctive style? Please let me know if I've been unclear in what I'm asking for, I'll try to explain it better.
So, sort of My Fair Lady in reverse? A bored noblewoman who escapes her confining and rigidly-controlled life of decadence and ennui to move to the countryside and relax into a much more real and natural life. I like it. In a way it's something like Robinson Crusoe, though his story was much more extreme. He was broken all the way down to a primitive level, having to learn how to live off the land with the help of a native (his version of the wealthy professor who taught Audrey Hepburn to become a high-class society lady?) Then of course there's the more modern version called Castaway with Tom Hanks and a volleyball named Wilson. I remember an episode of the Three Stooges, I think it was called Hoi Polloi, where a couple of high-class professors in spats and top hats were looking for three fools to try an experiment on Nature versus Nurture, the old conundrum. For a time they responded well, but then reverted to full-on Stooge behavior and dragged all the high-class patrons at the party down with them into a huge pie fight. Not exactly what you're looking for though I guess. Here it is as a matter of fact: (Hey, sometimes you can find inspiration in some pretty unlikely places... ) (And OK, no top hats, but tuxedos! )
This one's perfect! I can have a look at that movie and see how it'd compare thematically. I probably won't lean so heavily into the phonetics, but in a way the fact that it seems to literally plots like some sort of scientific research works in my favour. But I'm kind of interested particularly in a book. Because thematically I have a pretty similar premise to the movie, but I want to know how it'd feel to read it being presented like that. The concept could be quite jarring to read and maybe off-putting and I don't want to waste my time exploring the idea and throwing it out later if I don't like it. If worst comes to worse, I may just write it and see how it goes, but I'd hate to have to rewrite half the book because it just doesn't work. Though it'd be a learning experience in any case.
I'm trying to relate the idea to real life as much as I can, and here's what's occurred to me so far, just brainstorming: What would cause a person who's well educated, well-spoken, and articulate, to start speaking in a particular dialect, as if she's none of those things? Or at least to lean away from them. Of course one reason would be if she originally spoke like that and had been educated out of it, as in My Fair Lady. Then of course, her reverting later would actually be like what the Stooges did (believe it or not sometime even silly comedies and cartoons can spark some good ideas). But I've known some people who originally lived in the Midwest like me and moved to the South (US) and picked up at least a hint of the accent/dialect. Maybe more than a hint. Personally I don't know anybody who's fully taken on a Southern accent, but I suppose it's possible. There's something about those regional dialects that's intoxicating, that makes you want to talk like that, though if you didn't grow up there it would be pretty fake, at least for a long time. One reason a person might want to take on an accent could be to hide from their past. I don't know what kind of scenario you have in mind, if this would fit or not. Like I said, just brainstorming ideas. Or possibly she's weak-willed and absorbs things from her environment. Or she wants to try to blend in, maybe she prefers these simpler more rustic people and wants to try to become one of them. Then of course you'd have to think long and hard about whether that's possible or not. Some people can pull it off, but it's usually if they moved there very young when still learning. Maybe she believes strongly that the poor and rustic people are the salt of the earth, the best people alive. And she decides the wealthy upper class are deceivers and back-stabbers and wants nothing to do with them anymore. She might be riddled with doubt, wondering if she's really as good as the rustics or not. Is it nature or nurture (is it encoded in the DNA, or can it be learned)? That's the conundrum these stories are built on. Or she just believes unironically that she's as good as them despite her upbringing, but maybe people around her spurn her for where she came from.
Well the main thing would be exposure. Human beings tend to match and mirror cultural changes when isolated from their previous society. Especially when you are not an adult, you tend to try try assimilate your behaviours to match societal expectations. So just being around people who speak and act like that would start making her change. But also, she is removed from her court life into a journey and she loses the protection of her escorts during an attack. She has to change quite rapidly in interacting with people to escape her attackers. Otherwise she'd give herself away quite quickly. At first she'd be most likely unable to adapt her mannerism or choices of word without it sounding weird, but over time she'd find a way to do it possibly, death and fear are great motivators. Now that you mentioned how such a thing could require a lot of effort, I guess there is an actual mini plot I need to create to make it realistic. Maybe she'd be trained by courtesans or some sort of criminal type where fraud is art of the trade. Or she could be a trained actor. But there is also an even more powerful driving force for her to change. She doesn't fit into the society she was in previously. So when you give an opportunity for someone to change into someone more like themselves, why wouldn't they change? This can also work in the reverse, if someone picks up haughty mannerisms after making themselves rich (the rags to riches storyline) it's quite believable. The biggest challenge to characters like these, is not themselves, but how society perceives them. Even if the noblewoman may want to run away from the court life, it may not be possible or they lower class people may not treat her the same after finding out. Even if the slave wants to love the lady, society may not allow for this to happen. Ok awesome discussion however, I've started to create a whole bunch of themes in my head now.
I was just thinking something along these lines—maybe she always hated and made fun of the lower class but subconsciously she really liked them and secretly wanted to be like them. And maybe she's surprised to discover this herself. So by making fun of them and mocking them a lot, she's actually learned quite a bit about how to speak and behave like them. Maybe she first does it only as a disguise but rapidly discovers she actually prefers living like this. Maybe it surprises her that she realizes her former court life now feels alien and false. Another movie that occurs to me is Citizen Kane, which is the opposite movement again. He was living as a poor boy and suddenly a wealthy relative whisked him away to a rich life, and from that moment on he was never really happy again. His fondest memories were of playing on a sled named Rosebud, and that's the word on his lips as he dies in the end. It's cool that we're not thinking of any stories like what you want to do, maybe it's fairly original? Or more likely we just aren't aware of the predecessors. Somebody might come in and list dozens of such stories now lol. One more thing I'm reminded of is the true-life tale of I think it was St. Augustine? He was a devout monk and railed severely against the heretical alchemists who were considered evil blasphemers. He dedicated much of his life to preaching sermons and writing tracts against them. Then toward the end of his life he was riding a donkey on a trail and it went under a low tree and he got conked good and hard on the head and fell off. He never fully recovered, was delirious, but still able to deliver sermons. But the character of them changed drastically from then on. Now he preached that he finally understood what the alchemists were actually doing all along, they weren't really heretical sorcerers, they were were trying to describe the changes that actually happened in themselves as if they were happening in the metals and chemicals they fired in their ovens. They were unable to see that the changes were occurring within themselves, but could only see them obliquely, as if it were happening to metals, turning base lead into gold. In reality they were describing what centuries later Carl Jung would name the Individuation process, a process of psychological growth and maturity. The reason he understood it after his accident is that he himself underwent the same process by different means. Sorry, that was a bit long winded and possibly incomprehensible. But it does bear certain similarities with your idea, someone hating a class of people and then suddenly undergoing a conversion into one of them and now seeing things totally differently. OK, I'll stop now...
No it's fantastic. But yes the premise of transmutation that is present in the alchemist story is basically what's happening to this character. She was in an inert and false state of self. Exposing her to the elements purified what it was to be her, the true self as it were. Also I have a very vague recollection of this story I'm looking for (plus I feel it must be common, though I haven't found it). A high-born giving up his/her life at court once exposed to living in the lower society. Basically renouncing his/her blood. I just cannot figure out where I've read stuff like that. But it doesn't feel original at all so there must be stories like that. But having said that, it's not a very marketable or capitalistic story is it? People don't normally glorify losing all their power and prestige. Usually the princess is rescued and becomes a princess again... Whether I can find the explicit way where the tone changes is another thing. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastasia_(1997_film) Seems like a close idea. Though, it doesn't quite work because she never really spends enough time to remember being a princess. Actually this is a devil of a concept. I feel like there MUST be a story that follows this structure. But I cannot seem to find it.
True, and also there's an element of religious conversion at the same time. I don't see why not, assuming it's well written. Not every story needs to be rags to riches. It's actually a well-known fact that lottery winners often become miserable because of the way it changes their lives. They no longer know who their real friends are or if people all just want money from them, long lost 'relatives' suddenly come crawling out of the woodwork, or old school friends that he doesn't remember. And they often say having so much money does't improve their lives at all and in fact makes it far worse. They have to pay a lot more in taxes and live a very different lifestyle. To me that's a much more interesting story than the classic fairy take rags to riches. As if suddenly being rich makes everything perfect. It's actually a lot more important to live a fulfilling life, whatever that means to you. Money won't fix your problems it will only enable you to make them far worse, especially if they're character problems (like addiction, impulse buying, womanizing, or whatever). Many people say they were much nappier when they lived in poverty, and that they learned all the most important lessons then. Wealth often leads to a shallow materialistic life. I think you're right, there must be many stories like it.
What about those movies where a rich person and a poor one switch identities? I think one was called Carbon Copy? There were a few. I think Eddie Murphy was in one? There was a similar one with Mel Gibson where he was a chauvinist and suddenly got struck by lightning and became a woman. I think Helen Hunt was the woman. I'll try to remember or find out what some of these were. Carbon Copy Body Switch Movies A couple of these body switch movies should be close. I also remember a movie with Selena Gomez where she was a princess and switched identities with a girl who looked just like her, probably a poor girl, though I don't remember. Here it is: Princess Protection Program
No I mean there is definitely a story about poor people becoming rich then poor again. I understand that arc and it makes sense. But there seems to be a lack of stories about rich people becoming poor then when they go back to their rich life they are dissatisfied so they go back to being poor. I think the reason there is because we can accept a poor person accepting their poorer true self. But is society ready to accept a rich person renouncing their rich self to become poor again? The closest story I can think of like that is Into the wild. But they don't celebrate it as much as make him look slightly foolish. Plus he's not quite that rich either, just upper middle class. The body switch movies don't tend to work as a direct comparison because they will always switch back. They may bring back some of the insights or learning from the journey, but they'd never renounce the life altogether. I mean it would be the equivalent of them switching their body and never switching back.
I added a few things to the last post if you've already seen it. As for the tone changing, I suppose it could start off all highfalutin' and formalistic, and after the switch become very informal and relaxed. I mean the actual narration itself. Hey, maybe it could start with an impersonal and formal narrator and when she changes it switches to first person narration in her new character voice? That could be fun. The book might be in 2 sections, each with a number of chapters.
I like the idea about switching narration POV. That could make it more intimate... I have been messing around with first person POV for a while now due to toying with other ideas.
It depends on how you portray each part. If you go with the standard cartoonish idea that rich is always better, of course it wouldn't be accepted. But not every story has to be written at that kind of shallow level. People who have seen beyond those silly ideas know it isn't really that simple. Of course of you watch nothing but Hollywood franchise movies you'd believe that rich is always better, but movies weren't always so silly and shallow, nor were books. Unfortunately today a lot of people probably haven't seen much of that kind of reality or stories. Since somewhere in the mid to late 70's and ramping up rapidly in the 80's, things have gotten really shallow in most movies, unless they're from other countries (I mean other than the US) or independent studios. But honestly I don't think the vast majority of people are completely unaware of this kind of thing. Most people have seen that wealthy people can live very shallow and meaningless lives, Hell, it's a major theme of things like A Christmas Carol and all its takeoffs (Scrooge McDuck, Richie Rich the Poor Little Rich Boy, Scrooged, etc). Many movies show how meaningless and shallow the lives of the wealthy can be, including American Beauty, there's The Great Gatsby (to switch to books). And countless more. Yes, but I'm just offering them as examples of movies where wealthy people learn how much better being poor can be. And maybe the poor people learn wealth isn't all it's cracked up to be either.
It depends on how you portray each part. If you go with the standard cartoonish idea that rich is always better, of course it wouldn't be accepted. But not every story has to be written at that kind of shallow level. People who have seen beyond those silly ideas know it isn't really that simple. Of course of you watch nothing but Hollywood franchise movies you'd believe that rich is always better, but movies weren't always so silly and shallow, nor were books. Unfortunately today a lot of people probably haven't seen much of that kind of reality or stories. Since somewhere in the mid to late 70's and ramping up rapidly in the 80's, things have gotten really shallow in most movies, unless they're from other countries (I mean other than the US) or independent studios. Probably happened around the time bankers and stock traders became the new class of power and prestige. Don't get me wrong, old money still has connections, but this new breed of stock brokers and bankers tech giants are the new upper class; the world/governments bends to their power for the most part. To fall from grace you'd have to be blatant in rigging the markets and probably did the only sin that could get you fucked (if you messed with some other rich billionaire and they have a vested interest in seeing you fail). But even then, not a sure thing. Anti monopoly laws have become a bit of a joke. But honestly I don't think the vast majority of people are completely unaware of this kind of thing. Most people have seen that wealthy people can live very shallow and meaningless lives, Hell, it's a major theme of things like A Christmas Carol and all its takeoffs (Scrooge McDuck, Richie Rich the Poor Little Rich Boy, Scrooged, etc). Many movies show how meaningless and shallow the lives of the wealthy can be, including American Beauty, there's The Great Gatsby (to switch to books). And countless more. I'm going to sound like an old man, but money is kind of the new religion for this age. If you are rich, you can do anything, if you are poor, why aren't you rich yet? Having intimate relations with gen z, they all seem entrepreneurial with their influencer mentality, but that also makes them sharks. Or they go the opposite way and are all SJW. So they are much more radical than what I experienced in my age group or much more shallow. Though this is anecdotal experience as I didn't come across many normal in-between people while attending uni. In a way, the generation aren't very sheep like, either very cynical or very idealistic, polarised is probably the word I'm looking for. It's a good thing maybe? They may stir shit up, who knows. Yes, but I'm just offering them as examples of movies where wealthy people learn how much better being poor can be. And maybe the poor people learn wealth isn't all it's cracked up to be either. Ah in that case the examples may be good to study.
Of course to be realistic, it isn't being wealthy or being poor that makes the difference. If a person is shallow and materialistic then money will only magnify their problems. If a person has a good set of values, understands that relationships are more important than money, then they can live a great life with plenty of money.
I've run across that attitude in some millennials. Yeah, some of them seem extremely shallow. When I first met my niece's boyfriend, her fiance at the time (since divorced) he announced he planned to be a millionaire by 25. I asked how, and he just smiled and said he had no idea. I told him that's not actually a plan, just a wild dream. I don't know where they're picking up these insane notions? It seems like an amplification of the dreams of the yuppies of the 80's, though they actually did things that would make them become wealthy. It reminds me of when I was 6 and said I was going to grow up to be an astronaut.
But you and I aren't like that, nor are millions of others. I think you're stereotyping too many people. Besides, if it's just one generation, that's a pretty small part of the population at any given time. And I doubt it's anywhere near the entire generation.
We've kinda been fed this shit since growing up. The education system is designed like a progression system of a game. You do well in your studies you get gold stars and accolades and told you will go to uni if you make the grades. Then after uni you sort of don't end up actually getting the jobs you want. Why? Because it's better to have a father who can get you a job in his company than an A next to some grade. Or the other hard truth is that you aren't just going to get jobs without good inter personal skills. Some people sort of think they exist in a vacuum and they've never had to work with others. Or the worst, like in my case, people expect me to lead a team and I have had never focused on being a leader lmao. That's the millennial dream that was sold in school. The gen z dream is even crazier, they expect to become an influencer, have a million followers and become famous and make lots of money and start blogging about their travel destinations. It's the equivalent of an entire generation of people who secretly hope they'll become movie stars. Your astronaut example is apt, there isn't even a fraction of a percentage that I could conjure up how much of the population become astronaut. Not to say you are 100% never going to get the job, but being driven for a goal and just sort of wishing it is different things.
You are right we aren't like that, but my life experiences are fairly weird. I'm a guy who has immigrated twice, it's not normal, I mostly came across people who never even leave their country in Australia. Or if they had, it's generally Bali. Maybe a whole generation is harsh, but I'd say a significant portion of them. More so than any other generation I've had to come across. Plus I don't see it as a negative or criticism, it's more an understanding of motivator. I actually think it could be a good thing to have a generation that are unapologetically shark like or radical in regards to the environment.
But see, many people are weird. It's easy to look at a group of people and imagine they're all the same, or exactly what they seem, but many of them have led strange lives that you couldn't begin to guess. Of course, many of them haven't left their country, but I don't think that's necessary. I've left America once—for about 2 hours I was in Mexico, right along the border lol! But it wasn't much of an enriching experience of course. Sort of like visiting Six Flags or something (a theme park) but with street beggars and lots of souvenir shops. Oh, that's actually almost exactly like Six Flags.
I don't mean to belittle anyone. Everyone has their own version of a unique experience. But I try not to gauge people with my experiences, every time I thought I was normal, I usually found out that I'm not. So I sometimes try to understand people as they are; not with a lens of empathy. Because some people are so different that I cannot empathise with them, but I can definitely try to understand them. Ok it sounds so horribly wrong. But in any case, the value system I've encountered from people are quite consistently what I've stated. Younger people in general care about money and have dreams about being influencers. Thats the opinion I've made while being a bit of a social pariah who tends to talk to everyone, so I even ended up sometimes spending time with people I didn't like! I guess people watching is something writers like to do...
