Novel Unsure whether to write novel or take writing course first....

Hello all,

First time poster on here.

I have always fancied myself as bit of a writer and I have an idea for a epic fantasy novel, but I am unsure if I should just charge on and start to write my novel or should I first take a writing course (or courses ) as I am aware I am just a novice after all and have much to learn.

Thanks!
Garry

 

I would personally start by writing smaller. Large epic fantasies are fairly involved and can get overwhelming, but it's all up to what you want to do. Writing courses can be fun, but aren't necessary to write successfully, whereas actually writing is.

 

Thanks for the feedback, the reason I think I need to do a course or something similar is because I struggle with the concept of 'Showing and not telling', but you think this would naturally improve with the more I write is what you're saying ?

 

Personally I would do as Dapper said and start by writing smaller. Write some short stories, take a class or two, hone your skills, and then maybe you can move on to an epic fantasy. I'm not saying you have to do it this way, it's just what I would do in your situation. If you want you could even start by writing short stories that take place in the same universe as your proposed epic to help flesh out the world building a bit.

 

Writing is like any skill. The more you practice it, the better you'll get. Lessons will help, but I've found that reading and writing helps me more.

 

That's a great idea, thanks.

 

Or you could do both.

You are not wedded to your first draft. The longer you write, the more you write, the better you'll be. Who says that the first attempt need to stay? In fact I'm betting it won't, not if you want it to be real good. But if it's a story your heart is set on, it may be difficult to write something else, so you could start your epic and take a writing course on the side. Most of them have some kind of homework which gets critiqued, and you could give them short pieces out of your epic. That way you could have some of both worlds

 

Hey thanks for the feedback, I guess the thing I worry about doing it this way is if I was really bad and had to re-write it all over again once I was a more accomplished writer.

 

You could start with some smaller project related to your fantasy setting, like a set of tales, that would help you not only about setting the pace and tone for a bigger novel, but also will show aspects about your writing that are easier to spot for people you ask for a review. Later, you could apply the earned experience into the big project. when I took the choice of writing stuff, I began with four-paged tales.

Keep in mind, tales are more event-oriented than novels, which focus more into character and plot development, so they'll be different on their structure. But you can gain a tremendous insight from a small, compact work with a more limited set of elements to analyze.

 

Thanks for the reply, I will probably begin this way with the smaller short stories written within the universe for the main novel.

 

I will admit the one and only writing course I took in college was helpful in getting some tips on show not tell, as well as helping me become more aware of spelling and grammar.

The reality was that the tip was very simple. What I was doing was trying to show by the sense of sight and that was boring. It was boring for me to write and boring for people to read. So, often I just skipped that. One of the suggestions she made was to use the other senses like smell, sound, feel, and taste. And that just totally made writing more fun.

Most my learning came from being vulnerable and showing my story to people who don't know me. And that's daunting, because you know they will say what you don't want to hear: you aren't as good. But letting people say, very bluntly (not rude though), say what they really think and not fear I'm going to argue and get offended, was the greatest teaching moment. It hurt to hear that my main character that put my heart and soul to make compelling, actually came off as annoying and over dramatic. It was hard to hear that one scene that I put all my focus into because I thought that it was just going to blow people away, was actually really out of place in context to the rest of the story. It was terrible to hear that this story that I put so much heart and soul into, was actually going to take too much work to make publishable; and if that was my goal, I would probably be better off scrapping and starting over. (I actually had a funeral for that book and let it go.) When I was an angsty teen, just starting out, I didn't care about grammar. It was the story that deserved all the merit, I thought. But I quickly learned that a good idea poorly written is a bad story.

Success is great, but failure is the better teacher. And boy did I learn a lot about story telling, grammar, consistent characters, and settings. I learned how important the structure of the story is. I'm now more emotionally disconnected from my stories. Not that I'm not passionate about them, but I don't view them as "part of my soul" anymore like I used to. I see them now as an extension of my ideas and thoughts and the feedback just helping express that idea as best it can be expressed. I learned to view writing as a tit for tat; a form of communication; instead of a "hear me, I'm God because I wrote a novel about some social issue."

 

It honestly doesn't matter. Here's the reality. Your first novel is going to suck. It just is. Your fifth novel will probably suck too, just not in the same ways. Writing is something that you learn by doing, not by sitting through a class. Now taking a writing course may help you avoid some of the most common pitfalls, it'll just clear the way for you to fall into entirely different pitfalls. There are no shortcuts when it comes to writing. It's all hard work and experience and requires dedication and lots and lots of time and effort. Whatever ideas you have for this novel, this is not going to be a saleable novel right off the bat. It just isn't. But everyone has to start somewhere, so give it a shot and write. Make your mistakes here. Learn from them so you don't make them again down the road. That's what being a writer is all about.

 

There's nothing wrong with taking courses, but you can get a free education by hanging around writing forums and picking up books on craft from your local library. There is also nothing stopping you from writing at the same time. Give yourself permission to write the worst stories you can for the next few years. Your main goal now is to practice.

Welcome, and good luck.

 

Write first, study later. Most of us have a basic understanding of story and language and a modest understanding of writing from reading a lot of books over the years, so there's nothing to stop you from writing the usual crappy first novel that most of us wrote.

But until you've written that novel or at least a few short stories, and had some feedback from readers, you won't even know what kind of courses you should be taking. You won't know your strengths and weaknesses without writing and putting it in front of readers.

That said, if you have an online group doing courses for free or a local group doing them cheap (ours often has one-day workshops for $10-20, and the library has some that are free), it might be worth looking at. But don't expect to learn a lot until you know the right questions to ask or the right courses to take.

 

Or even the unusually crappy novel some of the rest of us wrote.

 

I would suggest start by writing some short stories and find your weaknesses.

 

Oddly enough, you may find yourself doing both.

Speaking from my own experience, I was dared into writing a novel. I figured I read enough, this shouldn’t be a problem, let’s do it. After about 20K words I realized just how far over my head I was. Back in my days of youth and immortality I used to write all the time and thought myself a skilled writer: friends always had good things to say, family member were always impressed, teachers always gave my work high marks and praise. But as it turned out I didn’t know shit.

Once I started taking classes I realized just how much I didn’t know or had wrong. So, my advice would be to take those classes and don’t skip the poetry classes. You may not think them of any value to epic fantasy, but in terms of learning meter and rhythm in sentence structure there’s no better training ground.

Before you start in on a novel length work, play around with writing some short stories. All the same techniques and conventions that apply to novels also apply to shorter work. The difference being the amount of real estate. Writing short stories you learn to get the best use of every word, a skill to never undervalue, and you learn what makes a story work- for a novel you just stretch it out. The same principles apply.

 

Hey thanks everyone for the helpful feedback, appreciate it. I will take all your comments on board

 

No matter what you can expect to rewrite it and probably many times. A big part of writing is rewriting.

I'm all for taking writing classes. And I do see it as the fastest way to improve. I've taken more classes than I think of off the top of my head. I did the whole MFA. I think a lot of people underestimate just how much you can really soak up in a classroom. I see it as a way to fast track your abilities. I never would have been the writer I am without taking many classes, studying the art of writing, and reading a ton. I'm now writing at a level that I thought I would always aspire to. I'm publishing in places I thought I were out of my reach and above my pay grade. I am a writer today because I chose to study and learn rather than just writing and practicing and thinking improvement would eventually just happen. Maybe it would have, but not quickly and I can't imagine I ever would have learned so much. I always think there is more to learn. And I'm very pro education.

What @NobodySpecial said about poetry classes is so true. You don't have to take a poetry workshop, but some sort of poetry course will help you develop a better ear for how writing sounds and flows.

I wouldn't wait to take courses before you start writing. Really, I see no reason ever to put off writing, especially if the reason is because you want to wait to get better. I wrote dozens of stories before I thought it was worth paying big bucks for a course. But I was ready and wanted to learn more. I took courses before applying to MFA programs. Without doing that I wouldn't have gotten in. And an MFA was something I really wanted. It wasn't to have the degree, but to spend time with writing at the center of my life and the guidance that comes from good instructors and professors. Also, I just want to add that there are MFA programs with full funding. I was lucky to get one of those spots. That, too, wouldn't have happened without taking classes first.

The problem with thinking critiques of your work are a good enough substitute is that it can easily become the blind leading the blind. I do trade work with some people for feedback, but I usually get to know them s little first or I call on writers from my MFA days. I do feel like the people I trade work with are writing at a similar level to me. That's important. Where your feedback is coming from is important. But feedback really isn't the most important thing to me.

Reading is probably your best friend. That's true now and will always be. How well read someone is often is apparent in the quality of their prose. I wouldn't recommend books on writing as much as reading actual stories. Reading, just like learning and understanding poetry, can also fast track your progress. And it does seem like almost magic how these things work.

So, write now, but be prepared to rewrite and rewrite. That's just part of it. Also, writing now (before classes) will give you a better idea of where you stand and what you struggle with.

FYI -- Some in-person workshop classes can be brutal. I've seen many people break down and cry or leave the room. If you ever feel that way, just remind yourself that it just shows how much you probably needed a class like that and how much better you are going to be because of it.

 

Hey, the truth is there are thousands of articles all over the internet that you can read for free. I taught myself. First by reading good material in all genres. Then I selected my favourites to read. Thriller and crime. Dystopian, then low Fantasy. I wasn't much into high magic systems. While I read books, all ready having a good solid reading base from childhood as my grandfather made me read the classics instead of "fluff" I also began reading books on writing from my library. I knew a story consisted of three basic things. Character. Plot. Setting. So I began learning about those things and discovered there is so much more to creating a good story. People often ignore theme and it can be a mistake not to add those extra layers, I can always tell when an author has considered theme either before or after the book was completed, it does matter when, just that the author has taken advantage of it.

Then it was simply a case of putting into practice what I had learned. I would write short pieces and post them to a writers community and get feedback. I learned a LOT that way. After posting several pieces I learned my story-telling ability was quite good, but I really struggled with grammar and punctuation. So I'm working on that now. There are ways to learn this craft without spending money, but it all depends on how serious you are and how much you can afford it. I just write because I enjoy it, I don't expect anything from it

 

Find a local writing group. They are a good way to get help
and learn how to improve, and there is probably coffee too.
(Also good to get out and be social.)

 

I totally agree with what people have said here about starting on the writing and not waiting to take a course; I also agree with those who say to take advantage of the free resources out there as you write.

One of them is Brandon Sanderson's course at BYU, which was taped in 2016. The first session is here: youtube.com/watch?v=N4ZDBOc2tX8

 

Yes, I like the idea of this approach. Maybe pick some aspect of your story (some characters or an event that you want to be part of your saga) and get it written. That way you'll be learning about your story, as well as what your writing strengths and weaknesses are. Maybe write a 'prologue' of sorts ...in other words write some scenes from events that happened before your main story actually starts. (The way The Hobbit was a bit of a Prologue to Lord of the Rings.)

Focus on making these scenes come to life. That's the trick behind the showing/telling dilemma. If you just tell us what happened, he did this, they did that, he went here, she said that, The End, that's not going to engage your reader. Instead, DEPICT a scene.

Don't be in a rush to give out information. Let the information sneak in, and let the reader put it together. Don't tell us what to think (she is pretty, he is horrible, etc.) Instead, let us see what they are like. If she's pretty, probably people will react to her that way. (She attracts attention from young men who don't even know her?) If he's horrible, show us what he's doing that would make you come to that conclusion. He smiles at people who are richer than he is, but then goes home and kicks the cat. And then let the reader COME to that conclusion on their own.

Just start small. Like Tolkien did with The Hobbit. By the time he'd finished that, he knew what his tone would be, he knew what kind of pace he wanted to set, he had quite a bit figured out about what hobbits, dwarves, elves were like, etc. Then he was able to go on to write 'the big one.'

 

I agree with @jannert, write something out of your story, maybe not the beginning, something in the middle. Maybe do some world-building for yourself, describe your world, who and what is in it. Don't wait to start, strike while the iron is hot, you can always edit later (you will and must!) with new knowledge after you finish the first draft.

You are the best judge of your current writing skills, and know what you know and don't know. That will determine if you would benefit from spending the money on a writing course, or just learn as you go. I was, among other things, a professional tech/training/engineering writer for decades, so the mechanics and intricacies of format and layout were already ingrained. And I didn't take a course for that, either. And my first novel did very well for itself, so your first book need not suck either, if you are willing to put the work into it.

A writing course might be able to help you write better or faster, but nothing can teach you how to tell a good story except by telling one.

 

My advice is to write. Writing is either some thing you did or it's something you do. So, what are you waiting for?
Furthermore, consider how learning works. You learn best when you are applicative. You read something, and say, "Damn! I made that mistake 1000 times." That sticks.

Prior to taking courses, however, let me suggest some good books. Just read one, while you are attacking that first novel. Soon as you are done with the first novel, read another book, and address the next novel. You will see progress, as you learn contextually.

The problem with courses in writing is they teach very little, and what they often teach isn't directly related to what you are addressing. Fiction writing is a very specific thing.

Some suggested books to pick up and quickly learn from, without much in the way of pain: Self-editing for Fiction writers. Write Great Fiction-Dialogue. The First Five Pages. A Dash of Style. Hooked. How to Write a Damned Good Novel. Just pick up one, read it over a weekend, and your next work will have a dozen new considerations to mull over as you improve on the last book.