1. Ruyi

    Ruyi New Member

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    I’ve plotted myself into a corner

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by Ruyi, Oct 25, 2022.

    Hi!

    I’ve plotted myself into a corner and can’t find a way out. Maybe you guys can help me a bit to untangle this mess, please?

    In short:
    My (steampunk inspired) fantasy thriller novel takes place in a colony (really just a little piece of land that Big Country A took away from Big Country B after a war about 100 years ago). The industrial revolution has happened and the world gets more and more materialistic etc. while the people from country B and the colony originally led a very nature centered life that is more and more slipping away. There are different groups:

    a) A group that fights for that nature based life in a rather peaceful way („the good rebels“)

    b) A cult that fights for that nature based life in a more and more violent way and gets so frustrated by the situation that they vouch for destroying the whole world, starting with the colony, and turn to terrorism. („the bad rebels“)

    c) A group sympathizing with the government of Big Country B (which by now is basically a dictatorship and doesn't care much about nature either) that tries to destabilize the colony to rise tension between Big Countries A and B („the other bad rebels“). They are a pain in the neck, but not really important to the story (for now?).

    d) (Organized) criminals who will work for whomever can pay them, also good for smuggling stuff etc. („the jokers“)

    e) A group of police officers etc. who fight against the bad guys, and consists of people with cultural background of countries A and B as well as people hanging between both cultures („the heroes“)


    The heroes e) have to „save the world“ by destroying the cult, but that’s where the problems really start:

    - If they turn to Country B for help, my message will look like it’s okay to be a dictatorship. Besides, I guess, Country B would only help for something great in return (like handing over the colony to them) which would also look very bad. Besides #2: I guess Country B would like the cult leader since he could help eliminate the colony without (much) interfering from B and then crush him easily and win everything – this would be quite a dark ending, probably too dark?

    - If they turn against the cult, won’t it look like the colonizers fight against the last remainders of the original inhabitants of the colony? (which would also look bad)

    - If they get help from Country A, the colonizers alone are the heroes (which also looks bad, sigh)

    and so on ...

    I guess I should get rid of the dictatorship in country B, but then the colony would somewhat be obsolete as well and I could set the story in one big country that has to fight against a mad cult leader. That would make the story much easier, but also much simpler, and the colonial setting was the actual reason for writing this story because I liked the idea of cultures clashing but also mingling, and how they try to get along with each other – but obviously they can’t :-( .

    Any ideas how to untangle this mess? Thanks for any input!
     
  2. ps102

    ps102 PureSnows102 Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    Let me see if I get the straight...

    You have two countries, A and B, as well as a small colony that was originally part of B but is now part of A after a war. Then during some other point, it became independent, and was colonized. Who did that exactly?

    You say that you have three groups in the colony, but you actually list five. Peaceful protesters, terrorists, an organized crime group, an unimportant group of B-sympathizers, then the policing force. Do you only consider the first three to be a group? Just a little confused here...

    It seems that your plot mainly revolves around the conflict between the police force and the cultists. In addition to that, their elimination has become a moral dilemma, and you can't find an appropriate solution.

    If the police put a stop to the cult themselves, then that's bad because they fight against the last inhabitants of the colony (who is that again?). But this makes little sense to me because these people cause actual harm, so who cares really? I'd separate their roots from their current actions, because their current actions are what matters the most.

    Country B could put a stop to it (through some way you didn't explain), but at a cost. This makes the least sense to me because you'd be effectively handing the colony over to a dictatorship, and such political systems are often corrupt. You'd do more harm to the colony this way.

    Then, there is also the option of taking help from Country A, which the colonizers originate from. You say that this is bad because it makes the story one-sided and shallow as well as linear. I'd agree with that.

    What I would have to ask you is... what kind of message do you want to transmit with this story? What is it trying to say? Do the two countries represent something from the real world, like an argument? Are you trying to use them to say something? Or is this simply a Good Versus Evil themed thriller?

    I think this is the reason why you're stuck, you don't actually know what you want to do with the story.

    In regards to the moral dilemma, understand that there is no such thing as the perfect solution, when bad things happen people have to act fast. This is why presidents are always hated by people, they have to make decisions, and they have to make them quick. It's impossible to make everyone happy. A compromise must be reached, so if I were you, I'd start looking for the least controversial one.

    At the end of the day, you're dealing with politics here, and politics is a very heated topic (just look at what's happening in the UK right now). If you look at presidents and prime ministers, you'll never find one that was equally loved by people, there will always be people who hate/dislike/disagree what they did.

    If I were the chief of those police officers, my top priority would be to stop the terrorists, but if I also valued my colony and what it stands for, I'd aim to stop those terrorists by myself and lock them up. If I keep hesitating over some moral dilemma, innocent people get hurt, it's as simple as that.

    Now maybe those terrorists are being manipulated (and empowered) by Country B, who actually wants the police officer to think this way so he turns to them. A good thriller has twists, so if you want to keep the two countries (which I think is a good idea if you can give them purpose and place) then make sure to involve them beyond simple existence.

    All said and done, I actually like your idea of two countries and a colony, I think it has a lot of potential that you just need to draw out.
     
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  3. TheOtherPromise

    TheOtherPromise Senior Member

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    You say it would be bad optics if you have the police force stand against the terrorist group alone, but I don't see it. That's just them doing their job.

    Now if they can't handle it alone and have to seek outside help then that creates a source of conflict. One that should be guided by what the characters would do more than what the audience will think about it.

    You say that the police force is cultural diverse so it might be difficult to say who they would want to turn to. But it also is likely irrelevant. If the terrorist group is enough of a problem, Country A will hear about it and send in whatever forces they deem necessary to stop the terrorists. Now that might increase tensions within the colony, but if the terrorist are enough of a threat, there really isn't a way around it. A country is going to protect its assets.

    If you are concerned that this will make Country A look too heroic then focus on the downsides of their intervention. Sure with their might they are able to put down the terrorist cell, but their interference could lead to a push for autonomy. The colony could decide that it wants independence and start a rebellion. Though it won't likely be that neat since it would be filled with different factions, some wanting independence, some wanting to stay a part of Country A, and some wanting to rejoin Country B. Now that is likely all beyond the scope of this particular story, but setting up that such a conflict will be the result of Country A's involvement will make it come across as a more nuanced take than just having them ride in and save the day with no consequences.
     
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  4. hmnut

    hmnut Member

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    You have some good advice above, but like always perhaps it is my naivety, jadedness or sense of streamline writing efficiency, but I don't see a big problem here.

    Pick which option is the most convenient or interesting to you, and just have the good guy characters say it is a crappy option but there is no other choice. Like they can side with the dictatorship and maybe one of the hero characters can say how they are morally opposed to it, and even at the end after the characters win the day the character can say they may have created an even greater problem.

    You can even tease a sequel story of the heroes dealing with the aftermath of this choice.

    I am probably over simplifying it, but that's what I tend to do in these topics, if you say the character has to choose between two bad options and you don't know what to do, I say have them choose one and comment on how it was a shitty choice but he had no other option. Sometimes the best way forward is forward.
     
  5. Ruyi

    Ruyi New Member

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    Wow, thank you so much for your comments!

    It looks like not only I, the writer, am facing a moral dilemma here, but so are my characters. Somehow I totally missed that! I guess it makes things easier to handing the dilemma over to them :twisted:. After all I have a lot of different people with different points of view.

    Also you helped me accept that this story cannot have a happy happy joy joy ending. I especially like the idea of the colony aiming for independence of some sort at the end. I've been pondering this idea as well, but it ended in a mess just like imagined by @TheOtherPromise (and I absolutely don't want to write about war or civil war, I've just finished 2000 pages worth of warfare). Now I see this mess could be some sort of happy ending for the people there, at least temporary - even if it means something different for each of them. After all, the story will end there and no one will know how that yearning for "independence" will turn out. So there'll also be left uncertainty and dark foreshadowing that could keep the reader engaged after closing the book.

    I'm still thinking about all your answers and how to revise my plot and will probably come back to you in the next days. Thank you!
     
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  6. Lawless

    Lawless Active Member

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    When
    1) the good guys are not strong enough to destroy the cult without help and
    2) the cult is a bigger evil that country B or country A,
    then it makes sense that the good guys use them whenever they can to fight the cult. That's only sensible.

    If my country were invaded by another country, I might end up fighting alongside a guy I don't particularly like, but he is a lesser evil than the invaders.

    As a previous commenter already said, the good guys can discuss among themselves how they don't like one or another thing about their temporary allies, and what they can do to avoid helping them with their evil endeavors, and possibly have regrets when they end up participating in something reproachable. That will make your story only more realistic and believable.
     
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  7. Ruyi

    Ruyi New Member

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    This.
    My initial idea was „technical progress vs nature“ but it got overshadowed by all the political background – I have to fix this, you’re absolutely right!

    I adapted my plot and even filled in a complete Beat Sheet and now it actually looks like a storyline of some sort! I still have to make a lot of changes, of course, but I finally feel like having made a big step forward.

    What I have now:

    The terrorists place little bombs all over the colony. What the protagonists don’t know at this point, is that Country B secretly infiltrated/manipulated the cult and they want it to look like this cult destroys the colony, so Country B can either help Country A in fighting the cult (and later on make their claims) or just pick up whatever shards will be left after a new „super bomb“ destroys the whole colony that Country A probably wouldn’t want to rebuild from scratch (haven’t decided yet – besides, it sounds too much like a trashy action movie, right?). They abduct a „bomb scientist“ who invented this „super bomb“ and can assemble it in the colony. The police, of course, try to intervene and save the day.

    I’m not yet sure about Country A’s place here. Maybe they send in some guys and mess up big time – so the colony’s leaders think more independence would be better. And also, I need a more compelling purpose for Country B, but I think you guys have led me to the right track.

    There’s a lot of room for conflict throughout the novel and in fact the terrorist bombings only start at Midpoint. Before there’s enough time to explore other problems – political, cultural, identity-wise, living conditions, technical progress/materialism vs nature, good vs bad, and basically every acting person is confronted with at least one big dilemma at some point. So I guess they will comment a lot about a lot of shitty things throughout the story and have to find a lot of compromises nobody is happy with ;-)

    Thanks again, people!
     
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  8. ps102

    ps102 PureSnows102 Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    I have to stress: Everything in the story should have a place, especially a major presence like that, except if you're planning to write more than one novel where you'd focus on A during the course of another book.

    But don't worry, novels take a lot of time to write, you'll eventually get a good idea if you keep working on it! Nothing ever comes immediately or quickly...
     
  9. Storysmith

    Storysmith Senior Member

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    Against terrorists who want to destroy the whole world? Isn't it in country B's interest to stop the cult?

    I'd avoid having a message, if I were you. Have characters take different viewpoints, have them argue them well, and let your reader reach their own conclusion. Have some characters argue against what you believe, and make them do so as effectively as you can. If readers can work out your position, you've not done a good job. As to working with a dictatorship, that's very much what the allies did when they worked with the Soviet Union against Nazi Germany. There's definitely an argument to be made here about the lesser of two evils.

    I thought the heroes included people from both cultures? And it's not in the original inhabitants' best interest to have the world or their colony destroyed. Perhaps you could show the impact of some terrorist actions on them. Perhaps that would change the minds of one or more of the heroes, who had previously taken a strictly anti-A position.

    Once more, aren't some of the heroes involved descended from the original inhabitants?
     
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  10. w. bogart

    w. bogart Contributor Contributor Blogerator

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    If you have a beat sheet, then what is your theme? Refocusing there might present some options.
    Your good guys may have to make some distasteful alliances to accomplish their goal, think political expediency.
    You didn't say anything about whether the various bad guys are cooperating in anyway. What can the good guys do to drive a wedge between them if they are, or if not turn them against each other.
    Is there a way the good guys can use the outside groups for their own purposes? Agreements they don't plan to honor, a planned betrayal.
    You have options here, some you may not like, but they are there.
     

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