1. Teladan

    Teladan Contributor Contributor

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    Em Dash Question

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by Teladan, Apr 9, 2021.

    Hello. I'm refining a story for a publication. According to the editor, no errors were picked up. Well, I have to say I found a few on another revision, e.g. "lead" instead of "led". I do wonder if the usage of EMs below is correct.

    “This is it now, Isaac,” he said through his teeth. “The last thing we want is to give ourselves away—” he gave a momentary shudder— “when we’re trapped in a box.”

    I've seen EM dashes bisecting dialogue like this in multiple books. I'd hope it's correct since the editor didn't mention it. Just need to know about the placement of the dashes.

    Thank you.
     
  2. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Typically the em dash denotes an interruption in conversation like:

    "Honey, it's not what you--"

    "You lying, cheating bastard!"

    While an ellipsis (...) denotes a trailing off in conversation, like when I can't remember what I was gonna...

    Not sure about your example. You usually see the mid-sentence beat/tag bracketed by commas if there's an attribution:

    “The last thing we want is to give ourselves away,” he SAID WITH a momentary shudder, “when we’re trapped in a box.”

    But yours is just a beat, so... not sure? I'd rewrite the whole thing to eliminate that wonky beat if it was bothering me, which it isn't, and your editor doesn't seem to care either, so let it ride, I guess? I mean, the way you've written it, your character is interrupting himself to perform the beat, so, yeah, long live the em dash.
     
  3. Teladan

    Teladan Contributor Contributor

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    Yeah, I certainly use the EM dash for simple interrupted sentences like the example you used. In fact, I did quite a few of those in my story. It's just that I've just seen some of these bisecting examples in books before and I liked the way it uniquely breaks the dialogue and brings attention to a character's action. I probably should just go search in one of my recent books, but it might take a while.
     
  4. Teladan

    Teladan Contributor Contributor

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    I've found this on a style website:

    Em dashes for sudden breaks or interruptions. An em dash or a pair of em dashes may indicate a sudden break in thought or sentence structure or an interruption in dialogue. [Emphasis mine.]

    There’s even more explanation:

    If the break belongs to the surrounding sentence rather than to the quoted material, the em dashes must appear outside the quotation marks.

    And an example:

    “Someday he’s going to hit one of those long shots, and”—his voice turned huffy—“I won’t be there to see it.”

    ---
    Looks as if I just need to move the first dash out of the quotation mark, which makes sense. Not entirely sure if that's just for one particular style, but it seems general and useful.
     
  5. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Okay. That makes sense. I think you're fine either way. And if they editor doesn't care, it's all academic anyway.
     
  6. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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    No.
     
  7. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    No what?
     
  8. Teladan

    Teladan Contributor Contributor

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    Something bothering you, Aude?

    Hm.
     
  9. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    Yes :bigtongue:
     
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  10. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    I have actually wondered about leading em dashes. They are obviously needed when they replace commas for emphasis (where you have a trailing and leading em dash in the same sentence), but when there is interruption of dialogue, do you only need the trailing emdash for the interuptee or is still needed/preferred for the interupter's dialogue (since usually it's another person or action causing the break in dialogue)?
     
  11. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    Only for the interruptee.

    Exempli gratia:

    "I have a question--"
    "Shut up, I'm busy."
     
  12. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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    No, the use of the em dashes in the example is not correct.
     
  13. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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    Nope. Too much time in court as an expert witness. A question that can be answered with a simple "yes" or "no" should be answered with a simple "yes" or "no." Extraneous elaboration only results in confusion.
     
  14. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Okay, expert witness. You going to troll the thread or actually testify to something?
     
  15. Thundair

    Thundair Contributor Contributor

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    I quoted the op just in case it wasn't completely read.


    I use an em dash for parenthetical, and if I'm not sure if it should be a semicolon or not… I've gotten away with it for a while.
     
  16. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Yep, em dashes for parentheticals; semi-colons for dependent clauses not separated by a conjunction.
     
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  17. Friedrich Kugelschreiber

    Friedrich Kugelschreiber marshmallow Contributor

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    It seemed alright to me.
     
  18. Teladan

    Teladan Contributor Contributor

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    This is no way to go about things. Simply saying no to something and then using your opportunity to actually be helpful to write some fairly arrogant comment that doesn't help anyone is ridiculous. You could've said why it's wrong in the time it took you to write that message. Anyway, if it's wrong it was only because I included a dash in the quotation mark, according to that source... (I think).

    Needlessly hostile responses if you ask me. Did I say anything to annoy you once?

    Edit: Honestly, I'm now inclined to say this person is deserving of some kind of warning. Maybe I'm taking it too seriously, but the latter part of it is clearly snooty and condescending. No call for it at all. This is a sub-forum about word mechanics. Details and explanations are not extraneous. And don't assume I'd be confused.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
  19. Thundair

    Thundair Contributor Contributor

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    It may have been have been a bit of naivete, not realizing many of us look at the reply and learn from the discussion.
     
  20. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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  21. Teladan

    Teladan Contributor Contributor

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    Right, well, this is really just general information which doesn't pertain to the usage of em dashes I was asking about. The second link's information requires registration as well. If you knew about the specific issue about which I'm talking, which you probably do, you could've just answered my original question with an explanation, no? I think I answered the question myself earlier anyway.

    Thanks for posting some information though.

    Thanks, everyone.
     
  22. SapereAude

    SapereAude Contributor Contributor

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    The CMOS on-line does require registration and membership for long-term use, but there is a free 30-day trial period which you can use if you haven't previously used it up, and if you need a question answered now.
     
  23. Ellen_Hall

    Ellen_Hall Active Member

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    You could try something like this:

    "This is it now, Isaac," he said through his teeth. "The last thing we want is to give ourselves away." (He gave a momentary shudder.) "When we're trapped in a box."

    These are fragments, but that's okay in dialogue. The periods indicate he's really pausing to shudder.
     
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  24. Teladan

    Teladan Contributor Contributor

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    I did wonder about that. I suppose Ort's not really doing the shuddering if the narrator is mentioning his shudder in the context of dialogue? Is that right? I'm still not entirely sure if what I've written is 100% correct. Not quite sure how to verbalise this bit of grammatical puzzling, but I can feel it's not quite right. Your example of the period usage does bring it back into the narration which is correct and good, but I wanted it to be a little more fluid.
     
  25. Ellen_Hall

    Ellen_Hall Active Member

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    "The last thing we want is to give ourselves away . . ." (He gave a momentary shudder.) ". . . when we're trapped in a box."
     

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