1. Bone2pick

    Bone2pick Conspicuously Conventional Contributor

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    Punctuation Em-dash before question mark

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by Bone2pick, Dec 12, 2022.

    While reading Stephen King’s The Shining I encountered the following sentence:

    And if his son and his wife had willfully set themselves against his wishes, against the things he knew were best for them, then didn’t he have a certain duty—?​

    Note the placement of the em-dash. What do you feel it’s contributing? Do you think it’s a good choice? And finally, have you used this exact punctuation in your writing.

    Personally speaking, the look of it strikes me as inelegant.
     
  2. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Definitely inelegant and strange. King was hardly a high level stylist.

    Could be a typo? Em-dashes often bracket parenthetical thoughts. Maybe there was a clause that was edited into a full stop question and the em-dash was never removed. Happens all the time.
     
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  3. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    An em-dash can be used for a hard cutoff midway through a sentence, like this: 'Could he be—?' (as if the speaker or thinker is afraid to even say the word dead). If it's a statment rather than a question it wouldn't be followed by any punctuation, but if it's a question you need to get the question mark in there. A declarative sentence would be done like this: 'Then that would mean—' It's just a harder cutoff than an ellipse, which indicates more of a slow fade. 'Then that would mean...'
     
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  4. Bone2pick

    Bone2pick Conspicuously Conventional Contributor

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    Of course. But I read King’s example sentence as completed, not cutoff.
     
  5. Bruce Johnson

    Bruce Johnson Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023

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    This seems like maybe an ellipsis would be better as it indicates a trailing off or pause to think rather than a cutoff. But I'm not Stephen King and I don't know the context.

    It seems to me that he's having a realization that he has an obligation to do bad things to his wife and kids but the sane part of him is unsure or reluctant.
     
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  6. Lili.A.Pemberton

    Lili.A.Pemberton Active Member

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    Without further context, I assume it's meant to convey an abrupt cut off thought. It doesn't read like a full sentence to me because it doesn't say what certain duty he has to fulfill, just cuts off beforehand as the implications either horrify the narrator enough that he can't or doesn't want to finish his thought. I think it's a perfectly fine choice. A rather bad quirk of mine is constantly cutting character's thoughts off so yeah, I use this kind of punctuation all the time.

    I also find I tend to see this kind of punctuation in certain kind of comics and manga where the story is more reliant on character expression and dialogue. People cutting themselves off because of an interruption or an overwhelming emotion just leads the reader to follow the panels more closely to see what's going on.
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2022
  7. Bone2pick

    Bone2pick Conspicuously Conventional Contributor

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    So sentences with ambiguity don’t read as complete to you?
     
  8. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    Yeah, it could be seen as completed, but in that case the em-dash adds a bit of expression that wouldn't be there without it. Imagine someone saying the line, rather than it being inner monologue. The em-dash would indicate something like raising the eyebrows right at the end, or tilting the head down and looking up from under the eyebrows. It's almost like a slight pause right there, which could indicate a less settled meaning, as opposed to a fully composed meaning. There's a little beat left there in the timing.
     
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  9. ps102

    ps102 PureSnows102 Contributor Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    Eh, these oddities happen. But I used to use the em-dash like this:

    "Did you... kill my cat?"
    "No, I—!"
    "How could you!"

    My thought was that this adds a tone of surprise to the speaker. Without the mark, he'd sound more reserved and submissive to the accusation before he is cut off. But this way, there isn't such an element, there is fight and agitation in the voice.

    Never tested it on stuff people read, though. And I stopped doing it because I wasn't sure it was correct.

    You scared me there for a second, I thought King died and the news of that somehow completely flew past me.
     
  10. Bone2pick

    Bone2pick Conspicuously Conventional Contributor

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    That’s precisely how it struck me. That the em-dash was attempting to add a certain amount of emphasis and inflection. And imo that’s an inelegant way to communicate that.
     
  11. Lili.A.Pemberton

    Lili.A.Pemberton Active Member

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    I can read a sentence with ambiguity and find it complete, but the way this sentence is written it wouldn't just make sense to read it as complete because it isn't. By using a em-dash and a question mark he is explicitly saying the sentence isn't complete. That's what the em-dash is meant to convey.

    I mean, if the sentence didn't have the em-dash:

    And if his son and his wife had willfully set themselves against his wishes, against the things he knew were best for them, then didn’t he have a certain duty?
    It would be fine but the interpretation, in my opinion, would be entirely different. I would interpret it less of someone who's slowly creeping to the edge of a dark path, horrified of where their own thought process is going, and more of someone who's barrelling down the dark path, uncaring of who he hurts along the way. Basically horrified thoughts versus determined thoughts.
     
  12. Bone2pick

    Bone2pick Conspicuously Conventional Contributor

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    I honestly don’t see why not.
    The question mark at the end communicates that the character is unsure, and not at all determined to take any course of action.
     
  13. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    If you think it's inelegant, then so be it. That's a matter of opinion. Personally it doesn't feel that way to me, but I've been seeing it for a long time. It's not new to me, and I'm surprized it is for anyone who reads a lot honestly.
     
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  14. Seven Crowns

    Seven Crowns Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor Contest Winner 2022

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    It's kind of weird. I see what you're saying. The sentence feels done and so what's the point?

    Knowing this story (we all know The Shining, right?), this is from deep within Jack's POV, and so it's more than narration. It's him dwelling on a violent conclusion. This would have worked much better, IMO:

    And if his son and his wife had willfully set themselves against his wishes, against the things he knew were best for them, then didn’t he have a certain duty to—?
    Who knows. Maybe King gets to push his editors around. I mean, it was technically okay, but it did read as complete too.
     
  15. Bone2pick

    Bone2pick Conspicuously Conventional Contributor

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    Quite right. I never intended to suggest otherwise.
    Good to hear. I’m delighted to have surprised a forum member. :supercool:
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2022
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  16. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    And I misspelled surprised again. I think I always expect it to be spelled like 'prize'. Why doesn't my spell ehcekce cath these issues? See, it missed those too.
     
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  17. Xoic

    Xoic Prognosticator of Arcana Ridiculosum Contributor Blogerator

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    It seems to be the spellchecker in Safari. I'm using DuckDuckGo and it underlines misspelled words with a dotted red line the way I expect. Sorry for off topic.
     
  18. Homer Potvin

    Homer Potvin A tombstone hand and a graveyard mind Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Whatever it is, it's stupid. Not sure why extra emphasis is needed beyond the regular exclamatory/interrogatory. Unless the author thinks the reader is stupid, in which case, why not use all caps, bold, italics, and pearl-clutching emojis.
     
  19. Louanne Learning

    Louanne Learning Happy Wonderer Contributor Contest Winner 2022 Contest Winner 2024 Contest Winner 2023

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    It makes sense to me to use the em-dash here. It's a cut-off thought, as if he is stopping himself from thinking what his duty is to deal with his wife and son. A duty to—what? What did he stop himself from thinking?
     
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