So I'm currently in the process of editing my short story through the revision by peer editors that are part of a local writers workshop. Does anyone remember my thread "No, My imaginary world, get out"? Anyway they told me I "Don't know my characters well enough". So...I was hoping someone would be able to clarify how I might go about changing that. And why have I always felt like that was one of my strong suits in the past? help...
You don't know your own characters well enough? What the heck is that supposed to mean? Do they want you to sit down, over coffee, with your characters and chit chat? Perhaps what they meant to say was that you didn't provide enough material for the reader to get to know your characters? ...And I'm only guessing at that one.
Here's a link to your old thread: https://www.writingforums.org/showthread.php?t=37781&highlight=imaginary+world Now I'm off to go read it so I can see what's wrong with those workshop bastards.
Oh, I thought the other post was going to be your short story. Maybe you should post it in short stories so the gang here can help you out.
Did that with one of my villians once... lets just say my mom wasn't to happy about the big hole in the wall... and the neighbor's dog being all barbaqued. Good times, good times. Ok I'll be serious now. That does seem like a rather weird way of putting it. Its as if they are implying they know your characters better then you do.\ Like Lothgar, thats what I think they mean. That maybe you need more details about the character and his or her personality. That or maybe your character's actions were not consistant throughout the piece. or something. You may want to go to that person and have them explain what they meant.
They probably saw your characters' actions as inconsistent with the characters' beliefs and values. I don't know why else someone would say that to you.
THANKS GUYS!! I totally thought (since I am very untrained in the whole writing lingo thing--no literally, I had to Google what "MC" stood for) that it was just a common phrase or something that I was just missing out on. So it's not just me. Good. Alright. I just spent about three hours backstory(ing) my MC (ha, I got this) figuring out time-lines, sub-story-lines that really aren't in the story at all and hopefully that will make me more...character aware (??). THANKS YOU GUYS!
I think muscle979 has it right. A reader might say the author doesn't know his own characters if the characters act inconsistently, or at least appear to. I guess some readers figure that if they don't understand a character, then it's all the author's fault.
I can't really say what you mean. Maybe they felt like your characters were inconsistent or too vague? (Which would be ironic given the nature of their criticism)
I didn't read your other post, but I have a few comments about your workshop response. I'm currently a part of a workshop where someone has a story where you could probably say the author doesn't know their characters well enough. I won't say that, because it's not constructive. Like your response to someone saying that, you have no idea what it means or what to do to fix it. It almost seems like an insult. If I were you, I would make sure your workshoppers explained themselves. Not only is the comment insulting, but it is also vague. It's almost like someone saying "you don't know how to describe things" or "your description sucks." These type of comments are not constructive in the slightest, and they do not show you how you may fix the problem (if there is one). If you are faced with folks who spill these types of comments in a workshop you need to press them for questions, especially if their comments are insulting. Ask them what they mean? Why they think this? What specific examples can they give you? How they think you could improve it? If they are unable to give you responses to questions like these, you can probably ignore their comments altogether. If they can answer these questions but you don't like their explanations, take it for what it is. It's a perspective from a reader. It doesn't mean they're right or wrong, or that you're right or wrong. If all readers agree, you probably should think about revising a few things, but if one reader thinks it is absolutely terrible and nine disagree with him, you probably don't need to do anything. Workshops are just a way to share your writing with others in an attempt to improve your writing. Some people don't understand the concept of constructive feedback, and they will just say they didn't or did like something and not seek a reason why or look for what worked and what didn't. Make sure you ask questions. If you don't understand what they mean by their comments, ask them why! This is the point to workshops--improve yourself as a writer. Press questions on parts of your story you're not certain about, and press questions on comments you do not understand.
@"Show" I LOVE YOU PICTURE! Dr. Reid is my favorite criminal minds character EVER! Anyway on a more serious note: @Raki, I totally agree, if your going to say something about my writing at least make it make sense (ya know?) but there is a slight problem. This draft of the workshop was anonymous, AWESOME so now I really can't go back and ask "hey what the hell did you mean here...?" So I've worked for a while creating a back story but still, if they don't think that my characters are "alive enough" I'm second guessing my entire plot line....if a reader just DOESN'T GET IT then should I even write this? SELF DOUBT! It's horrible!! I'm honestly should I even be part of this workshop? It seems that everyone else's short story is so deep, has so much insight and teaches everyone everything that's just like a revelation. And my short story....well, I tried to make it's "theme" that no matter how hard you try sometimes people won't ever forgive you/Often times things never work out in the end....But that seems so unworthy I guess. MAJOR MELTDOWNS ASIDE: what might I do to make my characters better?
I'm wondering if your focus on theme is part of the problem. In the other recent thread about theme, I expressed the opinion that one's first focus in a story should be plot and character. Theme, IMO, is something that should be discovered, and perhaps refined in late drafts, rather than planned from the beginning. Without good plot and characters, theme is a waste of time. Without theme, a good plot and characters still have some value. If you ever find yourself thinking that character X should take some specific action in order to serve the theme, rather than taking that action because that's what that person would do, then your theme is already leading you away from a realistic character. I'd abandon theme, and being insightful, and being profound, and focus entirely on writing a good yarn, one that's fun and engaging. Or tragic and engaging, or whatever you're in the mood to write. Telling a good story is the first thing to learn, IMO; all the lofty stuff can wait. ChickenFreak
Axle, I can relate to struggling with character development as plots come more naturally to me. If you'd like, you should post on my character development clinic thread in Word Games and people there can help you out in depth. With that aside, think about these things: 1. What makes your MC feel: A. Happy/Content B. Happy/Excited C. Angry D. Indignant E. Scared/jumpy F. Scared/threatened G. Worried H. Annoyed etc...come up with good things for all of those...then use them to come up with good obstacles, motives etc. Hope I helped!
Honestly, if the feedback you got was just "you don't know your characters" and submitted by an anonymous person you cannot ask to explain further, I'd personally ignore their comment. That's what I mean. Did the anonymous commenter mean your characters aren't "alive enough" or that he didn't think they were believable or what? You can interpret the statement "you don't know your characters" a number of ways, and guessing as to what he meant may only end up having you change something that was working and missing what he actually meant. A lot of the times that's the way it seems. The other guy's story is better than yours, but usually the various stories compiled in a workshop are like comparing apples to oranges. They're both fruit (pieces of writing), but they both have different tastes (styles, tones, plots, etc.). Because someone likes one doesn't mean he'll like the other, and because he may not like the other, doesn't mean it's bad. And that's true outside the workshop, as well. There's a ton of material out there I cannot read because I simply don't like it, but the fact that it's out there must mean someone likes it. And self doubt gets to the best of writers, so it's nothing to shy away from. I personally have to really talk myself into posting something up for others to look at and critique just because I always feel I can make it better. But sometimes that's what you have to do to improve yourself and your writing. But also take others' comments about your writing with a grain of salt. If they don't like it, look at their reason why and then try to find that "why" within the story. If you don't see it, or if you think fixing it will change the story to something you don't want it to be, just move on to the next comment. Without seeing the contexts, I can't really comment on what you might do to make your characters better. If you wanted to PM me a copy of the story (or post it in the review room), I could take a look at it and offer suggestions. I promise to be a bit more detailed than your anonymous poster, but I may not be as fast (it may take me a week or more to look it over) due to my own writing, work, etc. Just let me know.
THIS!!! What the work shoppers are telling you is essentially that your "story doesn't Flow", whatever the flying freak that means. IF - capitalized for a reason - you feel like you don't know your characters well enough, the technique that works for me to get to know them better is to flesh-out the back story the character has before your story takes place. The theory being that if you better understand your character's background, you will better understand and know your character. Hope that helps!
I agree with this approach, except I use the reverse. What does your MC Need? What do they want more than anything? What do they Fear losing? etc.. It is an old writing tool that has been around for a long time, I think it came from psycological evaluations actually to determine the type of person you are. (introvert extrovert, etc) Any of those internet quizs like this would probably work to develope a character if you answered the questions through their eyes. The shorter answers the better, and example of what a character needs more than anything could be love or security for instance, not: "Jimmy needs to find the gun burried under the barn by the river to avenge his sisters murder."
I have been a member of a couple of writing groups. They have their pros and cons. A positive for me was it made me write more and gave me ideas for stories. On the down side: they had their share of sheep, insomuch as if some one said something constructive or otherwise, the sheep would baa, baa in agreement even if they did not know what they were talking about. Then there was the jealous member (both groups I joined had one - only one) that would criticize and try to undermine the better writers and they would (when they could get away with it) ridicule the lesser writers. But in both groups you were not compelled to read out or share your writing if you did not want to. As for them saying you do not know your characters - how do you feel about this yourself - do you agree with them or not. Your own opinion is valuable and the most important. Listen by all means listen and then make your own mind up. Mallory and Mxxpower's posts both have good points on character development.
