Hi guys, My name is Kaiser, 26 year old male and I've been holding off on trying to get better at writing. I think I grew up with a lot of discouragements. Now I am older and a bit more mature enough, I can say fuck you to my insecurities and I want to throw my self into this as much as I can. Realistically I'm still working part to full time as a nurse so I'm just a hobbyist. But in actuality I'm going to be trying my best to be the best writer I can be. If that means doing boring shit like studying books on grammar so be it and I welcome it. But yea I feel like I wasted years of my life not giving this a crack and not liking myself for this. So yea, nice to meet you and hopefully you can help me get better at my first wish (to become a good writer) and I can do the same.
Kaiser, Glad you joined us. Knowing it will take time, effort and dedication to reach success definitely makes a difference. Terry
Feels good, doesn't it? I'm glad to hear you've made through. Now you can start living your life, not the one you're "supposed to." Good luck with it, and welcome to the board!
It's great you're ignoring the discouragements you had. Being knocked at a young age can completely derail things really severely. Looking back at how some teachers were compared to the one or two good ones I had (as an example), it makes me super-aware of how I say things when I talk to kids these days. The great thing about writing is it's not talent you need to get good at it but the determination to keep learning and the perseverance to keep at it. It's more like learning how a car engine works than needing to wield a magical, ineffable power. If you keep up that mentality, and see every error you make as a learning experience to correct and get better, then eventually you'll get there. So welcome to the forums!
Thanks and yes it was the best feeling to start saying it haha. Not just in this but a lot of things in life. I hope to see you around on the forums.
First off, welcome to the forum! Feels good to get that off your chest, doesn't lad? I am on the younger side of being a writer and I just want to say that I hope you are able to get what you are looking for here on the forum. If you ever need a hand just pm me and I will be glad to help! [Or if you just want an opinion of someone younger] You are in good hands my friend. Can't wait to read your work and hear your opinions!
Hi Kaiser, Understand about discouragements but with age, comes wisdom (so they say). Welcome to writing and your new chapter in life
Hi Kaiser! What makes you want to be a writer? Do you have any writing heroes? What particular things do you like to read? Is there a book or series of stories you wish YOU had written? (Not because of huge sales, but because you loved reading it/them.) "They" do say to write a book you would want to read. So I'd say make this a first step. What kind of book would you like to read? Don't be intimidated if it seems difficult. But there isn't a lot of point in applying the learning of craft to something you actually don't want to make! So have fun with this aspect of the issue. What grabs you about a story? Do you have a favourite kind of character? Is there a genre you prefer, or—better yet—can't resist picking up and reading? I'd say the 'love' of reading (and writing) is the one thing you can't really study. How to make something you love? That you can learn.
Hi Jannert, I love your energy . To answer your question about most favourite series, I loved GRRM ASOIAF and if I could write a series like that, I'd be happy as a writer. I read his books at a completely inappropriate age, roughly 2005, so that must be about when I was about 10 or 11? I fell completely in love. I bought a book during an adventure with my friend in some very authentic and old antique and library stores by ourselves. At that age, felt like we were entering into hog warts. One book shop was even built like a maze with no books in order. Me being a prolific reader at the time and a cocky s.o.b., picked to buy the biggest book I found to impress my friend. The book was a storm of swords. It was only 30 pence which is dirt fucking cheap and I still don't know why it was that price. Thinking about it, maybe they just liked some random kids coming in and buying their books. Maybe they thought i looked poor which I probably was at the time. After that it was like fireworks in my brain. Which character did I identify within? I identified with most in some form or another. Jon was a bro, Jaime was what I wanted to be (ok bare in mind this was me reading from 3rd book in, so I was a lot more sympathetic), Tyrion was who I experienced the world as. But in some ways, I lived through all of them. And it introduced me to fantasy. Prior to that I usually loved greek mythology. If you feel like this order of things is weird, it's because I grew up weird. I immigrated to England when I was 6 and I didn't exactly have a stellar childhood after that. The initial bullying when I couldn't speak English took a toll. I think it definitely impacted my confidence for most of my life not going to lie. But my siblings encouraged me to read English even though I didn't understand it and that's when I fell in love with reading. I read nearly the whole primary school library (somehow I found a dense book about Iliad and I read that too). Heck I even read the bible from beginning to end and I don't think a lot of non religious people can say that. My reading after this became very erratic. I didn't have normal access to books (immigrants families have it rough) but I was a vicarious reader. I went online and I read anything there. I found my online access to anime and manga and I would read the heck out of them. Berserk being one of my favourite, Hajime no Ippo another. I don't necessarily have a hero in writing. I'm starting to admire GRRM a bit more as I am starting to write now. But back then, I didn't admire how he achieved what he did, it was more the books themselves that was speaking to me. I still consider his 3rd book to be the best experience I have felt with reading, but that could be nostalgia. What grabs me about a story is the Cinderella story. I want the protagonist to win. I want him to succeed. But the life I've lead or the reality I've gone through makes me want him to share some of my suffering too. Makes me sound a bit sadist, now doesn't it?
To answer your last question - no, it doesn't! It sounds as if you understand one of the basic tenets of storytelling : conflict. Be a sadist, when it comes to your characters! You can't make things too easy for your characters, if you want to tell a gripping tale. Put them through the mill. Make them suffer. Whether you give them a happy ending or not is up to you. I know I prefer a 'happy' ending, but one in which the characters have been altered by their experiences, and maybe don't get everything they wanted. I think the story's arc needs to be resolved for an ending to be satisfactory, but it doesn't need to be 'happy.' Instead, the ending needs to make sense as the endgame of whatever the story was about and the kind of people your characters are. You've heard 'sad, but wiser.' I believe there's also a 'happy, but wiser' potential as well. As for GRR Martin ...I started reading Song of Ice and Fire with a lot of enthusiasm, years ago (before the TV series was made.) At the end of the first book I was hooked. By the end of the second book I was beginning to have my doubts ...looking ahead, at the time, and realising there were at least four more books to come, and that the situation still wasn't resolved. By the end of the third book, I'd lost interest. Not only was the story arc a long way from resolution, but I got fed up with characters I'd invested in getting killed off, simply because the author could. It was a lesson for me. I realise other people felt differently, but that's why I quit reading it. I've always loved long series, so the length didn't bother me. It's just that it felt as if it was lurching from cliffhanger to cliffhanger, and I got fed up. I have since picked up several of GRR Martin's earlier short stories (mostly sci-fi) and REALLY liked them. His writing is phenomenal. I just feel he may have bitten off more than he could chew, with the 'saga.' And I also think he lost interest in it—or created so many characters that their impact was diluted to the point that he himself didn't really know who the story was actually about. He's STILL not finished it, and now there's not much point, is there? But that aside, I'm delighted that you want to write because you love to read, and that books have inspired you and been companions for you for so much of your life. I would advise you not to get too bogged down in 'how to write' advice just yet. Just dig in and start writing the story you want to tell. Don't worry about making mistakes, or get hung up on seeking approval. You will make mistakes, so just make them cheerfully and move on. You can learn all aspects of the craft, but what you really can't 'learn' is your own enthusiasm for the story you want to tell. If you allow anxiety, or other people's premature opinions to creep in at the start, you'll lose your enthusiasm. The first draft is for getting it out there—warts and all—giving yourself raw material to work with. Make your characters and the intricacies of their dilemmas to come to life. That's the main job of a first draft. Techniques to get the stories to publishable standard will be refined later on. I'd also advise you (and this is just from me, others may not agree) NOT to be too quick to show your writing around. Folks WILL pounce on the flaws, and your enthusiasm for what you're doing can be squashed way too soon. You'll find yourself focusing on mistakes, which is a downer. Just keep it to yourself, if you can. Write for yourself, not for others. Solve your own story problems, and create your own characters. Don't worry what other people may think. Whatever you do, avoid being anxious about the process. Have fun. I've always said that writing the first draft of my novel (which I wrote without ever studying the craft of creative writing) was the most fun I have ever had sitting down. My novel needed TONS of revision afterwards, which was also fun ...getting a rough thing polished up ...but if I had been overly concerned about all the techniques and mistakes I know about now, I'd have written with the brakes on. I did take on board LOTS of feedback—after first, second and third full drafts—and made changes accordingly. (I'm still tweaking a few.) But my story is still my own, and I solved my own story problems. I didn't write it by committee, or fall back on the 'brainstorming' crutch every time I hit a snag. Tell yourself that NOBODY needs to see your writing until YOU are satisfied you've 'got it down.' Don't spend too much time trying to craft the perfect sentence, or the opener, etc. That comes later. For now, just dive in and start swimming. An unhappy childhood is NOT a liability for a writer, by the way. In fact, it can be a huge asset. Charles Dickens grew up in horrendous poverty, with his father in a debtor's prison, so when he depicted it in his novels, those depictions felt real. Jane Austen knew what it was like to be dependent on the wealth and good will of male relatives, and what it was like for a woman when that all fell apart. What you do need to leave behind, however, is a lack of confidence. You are starting NOW, with a wealth of valuable life experience under your belt. Your past is NOT your present , nor does it determine your future. Take 'revenge' on any bad past experiences by turning them into stuff that will keep readers glued to your pages. You know what it was like to be bullied. So if your character gets bullied, we readers will FEEL that character's situation and be moved by it—because you know what that was like. You can even flip the situation on its head, and let your character react to the bullying the way you wish you had done. What would have been different? That's fun to explore, and quite cathartic. You can take it further. What is it like to BE a bully? If a character is going to be bullied, you'll need to create the bully as well. Another fun aspect of the situation to explore. The big difference between what you actually experienced and what you write about is control. As a victim, you had no control then. But as a writer, you have total control now. Damn.
Thank you for your thoughtful response! However, I disagree that there is a happy but wiser. Let me explain before you think I'm just depressive or something. Happiness and sadness is just states of being while wisdom is just a realisation of all the knowledge you have accrued. So I don't think there is a specific state at the end that can be permanent. That's why I personally love bitter-sweet endings as well, because they are inherently hopeful while being realistic. No matter how bad you feel, you can hold unto the fact it's not permanent. No matter how good it gets, it's never perfect which imo is pretty realistic. So it's a happiness you can aim for in real life. I think your criticism of GRRM is fair. The quality of the books really take a down turn after book 3. I'm surprised you didn't make it through that book 3 though, because in my opinion the series peaks there. But I don't think the deaths were arbitrary in the series, they usually had a specific intention to remind the reader to not be complacent, life doesn't always work out in your favour. But in the same vein, it doesn't always work in your enemies favour either. So there is that hope again. I'll keep in mind what you said about writing for myself. But one thing I have embraced lately is that I have to take bitter medicine to feel better. So I'd definitely like to improve upon the actual writing so it won't require as much heavy editing later. Plus I want to at least have the ability to edit my own books. But I will put the brakes on posting for a while in the workshop because I'd like to have a bit more time to implement what I learned and need to focus on anyway. As to the story elements, unfortunately I've lived through a myriad of states of being. I'm kind of scared to write about those for now; the topics are too delicate that even explaining to my wife has been difficult. So that's also why I think I ultimately wandered here, to be confident enough to write about that (long term goal). I don't think I've been able to actually express those feelings and they've been wanting to break free of me for a long time. Whether anyone decides to listen is arbitrary and besides the point.
I find that lots of new writers are quite concerned about 'not having to do heavy editing later.' Having to do heavy editing later is HOW you learn, actually. If you think of any skill ...ANY skill ...you'll realise that making mistakes is part of the process. Yes, you will need to edit heavily afterwards. Take that as a given. Believe me, that process is faster than attempting to get to the point that you won't make mistakes at all, before you even start writing! As you get more experienced at writing, you will be able to do less editing ...because you'll have learned from your early mistakes. But by then, your writing skills will be honed and will be a part of your process. What you bring, as a brand-new writer, to the process is enthusiasm and uniqueness. It's very easy to lose both, if you are afraid of making mistakes. If you start showing your stuff to people before you have actually finished creating it, what you'll get is mostly negativity. All the shouldn'ts will come pouring at you and may overwhelm you. You are lucky in that you do have resources to 'help' you write. But none of these resources will make you a writer. Being fearful of making mistakes will not make you a writer either. Keep in mind that NO author anywhere is universally popular ...even after they become best-sellers. You won't please everybody, no matter what you do. Even your wife may not like your story. So what does that leave you with? Keep changing the story until it's lost its impact and nobody is bothered? And even THAT approach will bother certain people. Trying to please everybody is a fool's game, when it comes to writing. Touching and pleasing SOME ...to where you become a 'favourite writer' for them ...that's the magical goal to strive for. Yes, you're entering risky territory, being a writer. And yes, you're eventually going to want people to read it. And yes, you'll take flak for what you write ...no matter who you are, or how good your writing becomes. You will reveal the real you, maybe to a degree that you feel uncomfortable. Or your nearest and dearest may feel uncomfortable. Some or even all of your trusted beta readers may not like it. You must rise above this fear, and forgive all who don't like your work. You don't expect everybody to share your taste in music, do you? Tastes and preferences are subjective. However, the breakthrough comes when you find a few beta readers who DO like your work. The goal is to find and touch some readers, not to please everybody. The readers who are touched by your story are the ones you should pay a lot of attention to when it comes to critique. They're your target audience. They'll be the ones trying to help make your story better—not the ones trying to get you to write a different story, or to get you to stop writing altogether. My delight in learning that you ARE a voracious reader came because I know that YOU know, instinctively, what a good story 'reads' like. If all you've ever done is watch movies or TV, you won't know how a story should 'read.' You may have great ideas for stories, but your experience will be in the wrong media. However, if you're a reader, you're already immersed in your chosen medium. Believe it or not, that gives you a huge skill boost ...but one you might not even be aware of. Just get started. Write however and whatever you want to. When it's done, then you can look at it, sort it until it pleases you. THEN show it to a few people and be prepared for the reaction. And be prepared to edit the socks off it again, and again. You seem to be the sort of person who isn't easily put off, and will work through failure to success. However, that doesn't mean you won't fail at first. We all do. The worst failure is not starting, or not finishing. Beyond that, success awaits!
OK sounds good, I'll try not to over editorialise my pieces for now. I'll focus on the story I want to tell. Thanks for your advice.
And the best of good luck to you! My most heartfelt piece of advice is to have fun. If you're writing, you're already a writer! Let that knowledge cheer you up if you start to feel discouraged.
Welcome! I'm new here as well. It's so great that you're looking past prior discouragements! It took me years to get back to writing myself -- in part because I felt discouraged and in part because time just ran away from me. I look forward to reading your stuff!
