Not really sure why I'm posting this. I don't have anybody IRL I want to talk to about this. But the members here have shown themselves to be understanding and kind, so I feel comfortable to say this. I grew up in the '90s, and spent most of my childhood terrified that Saddam Hussein would start a nuclear war. It was scary, but I didn't think anyone would be stupid enough to actually do it. Now we have Donald Trump and Kim Jong Un squaring up to each other, and I feel terrified. The prospect of a nuclear war actually feels realistic. I live in England so will probably not be on the same continent as a nuclear explosion, but the thought of the kind of world we would be living in after a nuclear conflict terrifies me. I can't help but feel certain that one of these men will push the button. And I'm fucking terrified.
I'm sorry you're scared. It is scary, for people to have that much power. When I feel like that I ask myself some questions: 1. Can I influence the outcome? 2. Is there anything I can do to insulate myself from it? 3. Is there anything I can do to prepare for it? My view on what you're talking about is that I can't stop it, and I'll probably be dead before I have too much of an opportunity to worry about it, and ... if I'm not, I'll worry about that when it happens. It doesn't speak highly of my possible (and unlikely) survival, but it is what it is. I can't change it, and worrying about it isn't helping anyone - least of all me or my kids. I don't have a bomb shelter. I could build one, but... money. I hope this doesn't sound flippant, because it's not at all intended that way. There have been plenty of politically terrifying events that I've felt sure were going to cause us all to become red mist, but they haven't happened yet, and I hope this one won't either.
Why be scared? Either you will die or you won't, just like everything else that comes along. I grew up in the 70s, so we had it hanging over our heads every day, now I just ignore it. Every time I step out of the house I tell myself I an on an adventure; if bombs drop it will be a new adventure, plus some uf us look forward to chaos. As far as Trump goes, a bunch of other people have to be involved with launching. Essentially the same thing with NK. Always remember that those in charge want to stay in charge & sending nukes means you will no longer be in charge. I look at the two of them as giant toddlers waving sticks at each other.
We're living in an insane asylum where the guys with the craziest haircuts get to push the nuclear buttons.
I understand your fear, but you can't let that paralyze your daily life. I was born in 1970. I remember The Big Red Button looming large on the cultural horizon during the 80's. It was everywhere. It was in music videos, on MTV, we were saturated with this high level of panic and alarm as dynamics from the 50's that no one liked started to shift, and though they were old, bad dynamics, the idea of what would come next freaked us out. And all of this was before the advent of social media bombarding us with a 24/7-365 deluge of input overload. Take a deep breath and exhale. I'm still here to tell you about those long ago days. I'm here to tell you that I was present for the literal dismantling of the last vestiges of the Cold War in Europe (look up Field Station Teufelsberg and Marienfelde. I worked at both of them when they were ultra-classified, super-secure installations). I'm still here. You're still here. We'll be here tomorrow, and the next day, and the next. ETA: Here's the video I best remember that encapsulated the zeitgeist of the time concerning this topic. I'd forgotten how disturbing Spitting Image could be sometimes.
yeah that - I'm about the same age as wrey and i well remember the cold war. And those consequences were far worse... in the very unlikely case of the NK launching a nuke at guam, and the americans retaliating it will be limited to a few exchanges and some conventional warfare.... it will be very bad for the koreans and the people off guam etc but it won't be ww3 and the end of civilisation as we know it
Eh. Don't worry about it. Korea doesn't have enough nukes to cause any major problems for you, and the US would only deploy enough to stop Korea from being annoying, so... Also, the media has really been playing up the power of Korean nukes. "Bigger than the bomb dropped on Hiroshima!!!!111!" ...They don't point out that, in Cold War terms, that bomb was a firecracker.
And north Korea isn't stupid. They need US imperialism to justify their regime's existence. The last thing they want is a peace treaty (the regime wouldn't be necessary), and the second to last thing they want is war (they would die very quickly). There's probably half a dozen boomers sitting off the Korean peninsula right now with tomahawk and nuclear packages already uploaded. They know this. They need this.
I hope you're right. I've got a nephew in the Air Force stationed on Guam, with a wife stuck in the Philippines expecting their first child (my niece-in-law is a Philippine national, and they're waiting for the paperwork to come through). So it all seems very close to home for me.
I'm apparently a only a year younger than Wrey and Moose, and well...what they said. As a kid, The Day After and WarGames seemed like scenarios that were practically inevitable. I spent a fair amount of time worrying about it and was sure I'd never make it to adulthood. I'm happy to say that I've arrived and though the world is all kinds of f'd up right now, I'm confident that when I meet my demise it won't be due to WW3.
Lets look at this rationally. US has troops in SK, Japan, and Guam. So the skies are covered by pretty much everybody. China would not back up anything that NK does if they want to piss anyone off. NK people are slowly realizing that they don't have to put up with Kim-Jong-HamsterBoi and his shit any more. So in about 20yrs+ NK might just fall flat on its ass. Unless China decides to annex them, and let Hamsterboi pretend he still runs the show, while they bring the people into the rest of world. NK is never going to be in a position to really start a war with anyone, they can't afford to and keep an Iron grip on their people. Trump can't just go around nuking them either, because their are protocols and other people needed to fire ICBM Nukes. It is just the same shit NK does to get the things it needs to keep being a bratty child. Saber rattling is all it is. They would crumble under a real all out war with bullets, as they are more dangerous than propaganda BS.
'Not knowing' and 'not being about to do anything about it' is part of the problem for me. Yeah you take a risk every time you step out of the house or get in the car, but you have some control over those risks. This situation feels like it's in the hands of two men who are both completely irrational.
Yes, it's true about growing up in the 1980s, it was a constant, and part of your psyche [sp?], same goes for Northern Ireland. ... I can't imagine this nuclear hell becoming reality, like a sleepwalk, the good men doing nothing - and how could I/we be good men if this did come to pass? And fear also the emotional response of the Chinese people. Were France, French people, or America, American people attacked - our emotions would be stirred [understatement, you idiot], and we would become visceral.
I was born in 1965. My mother once told me that at some point in my childhood, people were stockpiling peanut butter because it was rumored to be useful for radiation poisoning. So, yeah, I guess for me it's just background reality.
Look at it this way: Through the various articles I've read, it seems the people of both Guam and South Korea aren't really worried; the latter being all, "Ha! Welcome to our life, Americans!" If they're not worried, we shouldn't be worried. Just think of it like Trump matching his words with the same intensity as Kim Jong-Un's words. He's trying to tell the tinpot dictator that the United States isn't some little bitch he can push around, that if he even so much as launches one missile, we will most assuredly wipe North Korea off the map. If there was ever going to be a reigniting of the Korean War, it would've happened by now.
I know that this thread is a couple weeks old, but I'm in that same age group as @Wreybies and @big soft moose, so nuclear war was what I grew up with, and it ain't so bad now. First, a couple things to consider. The North Koreans can't hit the broad side of a barn, even if they a) manage to loft a nuke and b) manage to have it explode. So if they do try and nuke Guam, they've got an equal chance of hitting almost any point within a ninety-degree arc of their target with something that'll just splash down and splatter some uranium around. Now, this isn't a good outcome, but it's not a bad one either, where nukes are concerned. Second, if they were to do something like that, well, the president's "fire and fury" quote was a little inflammatory, but pretty accurate. The United States alone has the largest war machine in human history, and if the DPRK were to use a nuclear weapon, no one would stand by them, not even the Chinese. The Chi-Com (see how old I am?) government is very, very careful and very, very rational in protecting its interests. It wants North Korea as a buffer, but in the event of a war on the peninsula, it would probably flood troops downward in an effort to maintain the buffer state while deposing the regime. China doesn't want to deal with the massive humanitarian crisis of North Korean refugees flooding everywhere, they're going to try and keep things tamped down, even if they publicly oppose the US. Third, dude, you're in England. Nobody in this game is going to attack England. If you were in Seoul, yeah, you'd have reason to be worried, there's about a trazillion (the real number is classified) conventional artillery pieces aimed at Seoul, probably with rounds in the breech; all it would take is Kim Jong Un biting into an overly hot section of pepper in his kimchi for him to order the deaths of a million or so South Koreans, but London or wherever? He'd have to send a hit man after you personally. Finally, how many nuclear weapons have been detonated to date? Give me a guess. Then watch this. We've already had a nuclear war on this planet, one where the United States decided to extirpate Nevada and the Soviets blasted the shit out of Kazakhstan. It'll be alright even if the bombs do start to fly.
I wouldn't worry too much. The North Koreans are posturing so are the yanks. But it's not going to come to blows. The North Korean regime need to make sure they look strong to their own people and that's all it is. Today a nuclear war is vastly less likely than ever before because now everyone knows exactly what the outcome would be. The North Koreans are a bit crazy but not crazy enough to believe that having their whole nation turned into volcanic glass is a good idea. And that's the only possible outcome of a fight with the US. They are weird and a bit crazy but absolutely no-one has the stones when nuclear war is concerned. If you want to get really worried then think about the middle east and Islamic regimes who think that everyone dying is a good idea....
Exactly. Hell, I'm not even worried about North Korea and I live in a country whose president said the whole "fire and fury" speech. To add to @Iain Aschendale 's point, Kim's missiles couldn't even reach Hawaii much less San Francisco, California. In short, there won't ever be a nuclear war between North Korea and the United States because both parties know full well the outcome of such a thing, even if one of them became a glass floor on which the Chinese do interpretive skate dances. That's the whole reasoning behind M.A.D. (Mutually Assured Destruction) in the first place. The only way he could ever hurt the two of us is if either he sends a hit man after us, or we both go to North Korea and start pissing on statues of their Dear Leader. Besides, the people of South Korea aren't as nail-biting worried about this as the media would have you think. Chances are they're just rolling their eyes going, "Oh, there he goes again. Now, dear, tell me, does this dress make my ass look big?"
If you want my honest opinion on this shit, it's this: one of Kim's aids will murder him before he is able to give the order to push the big red button.
IF they have the balls. If they try and fail, then the aide and his/her entire family suffers. No joke.
You need to look at everything through North Korean eyes. They need to make out like they can really destroy the west to their own people. Maybe not the peasants but to the military high command and the inner party; the people who matter. That's why they posture. Because the leadership must make sure that the people under them stay in line and believe that they are really as strong as they make out. They aren't but it matters to them to act like they might be.
Try to remember that, at least based on the premise of this thread, the alternative for them and their family is nuclear annihilation.
Yup. When we (larger Western "we", not US-specific) send them food aid, they tell their people that it's tribute and that the rest of the world is even worse off.
