I'm on a path to understanding myself more, as most 20 somethings are. I just want your interpretation of a snippet I've been reading from James Allen's PDF "As a Man Thinketh" I'm not looking for anything specific. I would like thoughts of what other people may interpret it as. I don't know, but maybe I can gain new knowledge or book to read on this topic from someone who can relate. It doesn't have to be a book just any insight or comment would suffice. Thank you. - 'Circumstance does not make the man; it reveals him to himself. No such conditions can exist as descending into vice and its attendant sufferings apart from vicious inclinations; or ascending into virtue and its pure happiness without the continued cultivation of virtuous aspirations; and man, therefore, as the lord and master of thought, is the maker of himself, the shaper and author of environment. Even at birth the soul comes to its own, and through every step of its earthly pilgrimage it attracts those combinations of conditions which reveal itself, which are the reflections of its own purity and impurity, its strength and weakness.' - James Allen
It requires a great deal of honesty with oneself in order to accurately pin-down your strengths and weaknesses. And a virtue becomes a vice at a certain point. Hence why we have sayings like "loyal to a fault".
Sorry for the double-post, but I think it's worth it for the sake of adding this quote. "Man cannot remake himself without suffering for he is both the marble and the sculptor." - Alexis Carrel
I might have trouble formulating the question I want to ask: Can there be a fine line between what you are trying to find to be honest with yourself and what possibly could be a by-product of your depression from the result of overthinking? Its a stretch of a question and maybe not understandable by the way I formulated it..
I think that one of my lead villain protagonists would agree with this 100% She was raped at 15 and grew up to become a world-class serial killer, but would bash somebody's skull in if they told her that being raped at 15 turned her into a serial killer. She comes down very strongly on the side of Nature over Nurture, and she would say that millions of people in America go through the horrors that she's gone through without turning out the way that she has (Oprah Winfrey, Lady Gaga), that hundreds if not thousands of people in America turn out the way she did without going through the horrors that she did (Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Dahmer), and that if she had to pick just one, she feels she has even more in common with the likes of Ted Bundy than she does with the likes of Lady Gaga. Though she does admit that she has even more in common with people who share both her horrifying Nature and her horrifying Nurture (Aileen Wuornos, Henry Lee Lucas) That said, I still think Nurture plays a bit more of a role than my serial killer is willing to admit, but the basic point is still there.
I will study nature vs. nurture to understand this more, never the less I believe I understand what you are saying.
In my WIP I've let my distaste for dedicated philosophers shine through. One character compares them to the street sweepers who follow after the parade horses. Another character likens them to gravediggers, but who rarely have the courage to fall into the hole they've dug. Yet another character comments, “This discussion is better left to doe-eyed philosophers. We’ve no time for this. Events have overtaken us.” Reflection of any type, even of the philosophical kind, is for purposes of our own vanity. All is vanity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Allan_Gilbert#/media/File:Allisvanity.jpg
Depression can most certainly change the way you see yourself, in the same way mania can. How one can mitigate that, or "see" past it, is a difficult question.
I'm not familiar with James Allen other than what I read in Wikipedia, but I've seen a lot of philosophers who expound a similar viewpoint. You say you're in your twenties and want to understand yourself more. My best advice (hey, it worked for me) is to set aside the philosophers for a while and write a novel. Write a novel that reveals - celebrates - your own view of life. Challenge yourself on every point. Use the novel as a proving ground for your self. If it's done right, writing the novel will change you and reveal your self to yourself (observe the spaces between your and self where I've put them - they're meaningful). Oh, and here's something to be aware of: You keep changing throughout your life. Understanding yourself now is not the same as understanding yourself later on. The famous philosopher (and somewhat famous boxer ) Muhammad Ali said: “The man who views the world at 50 the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.” This is very likely true. So the project of understanding yourself won't end in your twenties. It'll never end. One more thing: I've noticed that the more I know about myself, the more inclined I am to turn away from the philosophers and toward the poets. The older I get, the more sense they make, and they speak in a simpler language.
It takes time to find out who you are, and what kind of person you want to be. Lots of self introspection, and exploring the deep recesses of your mind. It can take years to come to a 'conclusion' of sorts, but you have to be able to face your soul in a since. Seeing the beautiful and grotesque parts of yourself, and figure out your own path. Not a fun path, just an option. Try meditation, that can help you too. Ultimately you have to be open and honest with yourself, before you can truly know who you are. No one else can tell you who you are, but you. Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. Friedrich Nietzsche
The answers you guys gave me are what I have been trying to understand for such a long time. I couldn't have asked for a better community for support than here. Thank you for all your support, very powerful things to think about.
This is probably the best advice, at least to the literarily inclined. You'll understand yourself better by expressing yourself, rather than delving into the unknowable mysteries of the world. Yes, it can be useful to expand your thinking but the best way to discover yourself is to do it in your own words. It's funny that someone above threw a Nietzsche quote in because his entire philosophy can be boiled down to "Seriously dude take your life in your hands and make the best you you can". And that is far better achieved by actually doing that than by reading his works because the man has a habit of writing one paragraph that you can decode into ten thousand words of analysis. Just go be you dude. That's what will help. If you have problems with depression then you need to address them in some way before you start taking anything you think as "being honest with yourself". Earlier in my life I was extremely sure that I honestly wanted to die. And perhaps I did at the time. But that's not something that anyone should be making plans about. Depression is a black hole in your head that sucks all your thoughts back to it, that makes everything into something that'll make you hate yourself. That's not honesty. It may feel like honesty because it'll make you think about things in a different way. But it's not honest, it's not even true. In more general terms; I am someone in (broadly) the same situation as you. I turned 30 this year and have just ended a relationship that I've been in since I was 19. Finally I have the chance to focus on myself and what I need to do to make myself someone that I really want to be. And that's hard. There's a laundry list of stuff that I have been meaning to do for forever that I never got around to because I didn't want to rock the boat at home; because I was kinda scared to start making changes to myself because I thought that it might jeopardize my relationship. At least I knew how to cope how I was and embarking on a journey of self discovery that would at best see a return to mood swings and depression and all kinds of fun problems seemed really selfish. But now I do have the chance and I intend to take it. But I do still need to figure out how to make a me that I actually want to be. As to the quote you posted; don't judge yourself too harshly for your vices and don't think that you are obliged to always be virtuous. The goal isn't to be a paragon. It's to let your better nature win out when it matters. You sometimes need to be selfish; you need to put yourself first. Most of us have been taught that we shouldn't blame people, but it's just as bad for you to take problems that other people caused and blame yourself for them. I don't really agree that people are makers of themselves. I think by this point in your life you already have drives and wants and desires that you can't just stop; they are baked into your head. And trying to change that will make you miserable pretty much no matter what. Without wanting to get too deep into anything in public; trust me when I say that no matter how much you try you can't just decide to give up things that are baked into your psychie. All that'll happen is that you'll spend years of your life in denial and walk out the end finally realizing just how much it's hurt you trying to be someone that you just can't be.
Great advice from @minstrel and @LostThePlot. And thank you @NewHorizon92 for having the courage to start this discussion! Another thing that helped me was listening to Alan Watts on YouTube when I'm driving. I believe reading or listening to philosophers is just as important as really exploring oneself. They're two sides of the same coin as far as I can tell.
I I have to resolve my depression, before I can seek the truth of who I am. This part, I kept looking back on. It's a powerful start for me to begin. I want to write poetry to address it, as well as through music. I really cannot express my gratitude for taking your time in being so in depth in answering the question. I know you will find what you are looking for. You helped me so far @Foxxx I will check this out. I have heard of Allan Watts, but now I have a reason to listen to him. Please believe when I say, I cannot express how thankful I am in a million words how grateful I am. Everyone really I am grateful. Thank you.
If I had to explain this in my own words, I'd say he's trying to say that who you are as a person is revealed through your actions. Vices are driven by base urges, and virtues are achieved through hard work and discipline. What you do not only affects you, but your environment and the people in it. From birth, your actions have effects, and your actions demonstrate your character. Once you're able to take responsibility for your actions, you become the sculptor of yourself and your environment. I don't know if he argues that doing so is an ethical duty, but I would argue that. While your perspectives will undoubtedly change throughout life, your personality largely will not, so spending time getting to know yourself now will pay off hugely down the line. I'd also add that honesty with oneself must manifest itself socially, as honesty with others about oneself, to truly reap the rewards. Honesty with others about yourself demonstrates courage through making yourself vulnerable to the world, so to speak. On depression, it skews your perceptions by its very nature. There are corrective behaviors you can engage in to combat it, and those take discipline to be effective. I needed medication before I could successfully implement those practices; you may not. Only you can make that choice, but it's necessary to decide whether you need to seek help outside of yourself. Depression was my great hurdle. Still is, to a point, but I'm learning. You should develop an idea of your ultimate self, compare it to where you are, and figure out what you need to do to bring those two into alignment. A lot of time is spent figuring out what that ultimate self even is, but unless you can visualize a future for yourself in, the trip there will be far more aimless and fraught than it needs to be. I hope I've explained myself decently. Working a little slow today.
There is artist named Logic. His song 1-800 is about seeking help from depression. This song made it to the top ten in the charts (I think billboards). I wonder if this is a sign of many people in my generation deal with depression as well.
Your words speak a million to me. I am going to read this over and over till it sinks into my mind. I am grateful for you sharing your experience with me. It helps me see the larger picture. Knowing now that it affects the people around is hard to admit. I am truly grateful for the time you are taking out of the day to reply.The more the better. You did more than enough explaining it to me. I really am a million times over grateful for your reply. Please don't stop growing, because you're paying it forward to someone who needs it. I am very very grateful a billion times over.
Thank you I hope you do as well Just be careful with depression, it can sneak up on you. I'm not saying immediately seek medication or anything, just be open to the possibility if you find that you can't get to where you want to be by yourself. Try to make sure that you are really finding joy from things; simple things even but things that feel good. Especially with writing (and anything artistic) it can feel like struggling with it is something important to the process, but you need to make sure that you are feeling some satisfaction from you're work. It's good to pour your heart out, but you need to get something back from it too, you know? If your writing doesn't do it, at least make sure that you have some stuff that you can do to get your zen back.
It is hard to admit, but it's a powerful thing when you take charge of it. Sometimes my mother cries because she thinks I'll take my own life. It's hard, but there are things I do when my mind is right to make sure I stave off further episodes and try to help mend that pain with joy. Realizing that your actions affect others opens two paths: guilt and responsibility. Guilt is a trap, and it always will be. It's important that you don't blame yourself for your depression, but it's just as important that you do everything you can to control it. That's the responsibility we're burdened with. Carrying it with dignity will make us stronger. If you ever want to talk, my inbox is open.
I really can't offer anything more than @LostThePlot and @Laurus and the rest have, but I do hope you find your way. A lot of us deal with the same things (as I'm sure you can see) so you're in good company @NewHorizon92 . I wish you well.
Ok, I am going to post one video from this guy. Watch any video with him in it. I wish I had this when I was 20 something. It is relevant to what you posted.
