1. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    a bit of confusion on writting conversations.

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by Blue_Lotus, Jul 13, 2011.

    I am posting the whole segment for clarity...
    My question is when writting in a voice that is ebonicly inclined but at the same time also foreign is this an effetive usage?

    Hurrying through the maze of hallways to the room she reached the doorway. Entering, she was exactly 10 minuets early. Taking her name from the board she went to her assigned station and waited. Slowly students started to meander in and at 2:29 Professor Shamlin entered the room and closed the door smacking his Shillelagh on the floor three times. This sealed the entry, baring anyone from entering the room; this particular Shillelagh as one unfortunate Demon had learned is loaded, making it easier for the Leprechaun to disarm his opponent it was long and black, shiny and weighted at its knobby top making it the perfect weapon for someone of his stature.

    “All right ye wee ones time to get this show on the road as it were. Is everyone ready?” He began “Check ye ink wells and grab yer bonnets it’s going to be a wild ride.” The class erupted into chuckles. “Take yer quill and slide box out, ye can open it en’ a moment. First a few rules, theres be no talkin’, no cheatin’ and no leavin’ with out me permission. Ye got five minuets to review before the spell is cast. After that ye be knowin’ thee rules.” He finished.

    Tamari raised her hand, lighting quick Professor Shamlin was at her side

    “And what do ye want lil’ missy?”

    “Professor, I request permission to use the restroom Sir.”

    “Now ye know ya can’t be leavin’ in the midst of a session, but I will make an exception this once. Anyone else need to make use of the ladies room while we’s be at it?” He addressed the class one other girl, Gia raised her hand. He wrote out hall passes for each of them “Ye both needs to be back here by 2:35 sharp, else ye won’t be getting’ back in. Understand?” he asked them

    They nodded their heads and he rapped his Shillelagh on the floor allowing them to pass through. They could hear him tapping the floor again as the door closed behind them. They all but ran to the restroom to make the dead line, returning with 30 seconds to spare. They knocked on the door and they heard the tapping sound from behind it. Once they were safely inside the class room he sealed the entrance again and they took their seats.

    “Books down, times up, ye gots one hour ter finish.” He spoke the spell and again lips were sealed tight. Tamari picked up her box of slides, and began her exam scribbling her answers on her blank parchment as she went along.

    I was shooting for the stereotypical Leprechaun accent here. your thoughts?
    What about puntuation with the clipped words do I use the ' where he drops the words ending or is there a better way?
     
  2. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Write dialect, but avoid writing phonetically.

    In other words, if it ain't a word, don't write it "sounded out."

    Yes, a good writer may be able to get away with a little bit of phonetic dialogue, but it very quickly becomes an annoying speed bump.

    Dialect is word choice and phrasing order. For example, New Englanders are infamous for applying the adjective "wicked", both as an adjective and an adverb:

    "That band is wicked!" (excellent)

    or

    "I was wicked tired after waiting in traffic three hours at the Bourne Bridge."

    But writing a "Bahstin accent" phonetically ("My cah broke down in Wisteh!") will just be wicked annoying.
     
  3. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    Techinicly speaking they are all words... I don't mean to be arugmenative here so please hear me out.
    Ye is Old English and is still acceptable in written works when writting in high prose or when writting a charater whos dialect is of middle english decent. Is this correct or have I misunderstood something?
    In this section "ye" replaces the modern usage of "you" as the pronoun.
    The same would apply to "yer" which in the spoken dialect is a basterdization of "your."

    Keeping with the known styalization for this type of persona, the poorly spoken grammar would be accepted. No?

    The only reason I wrote this as such is because I have a friend in Ireland who acctualy does talk like this sometimes... It's really funny to hear I might add, but that is neither here nor there.

    I do not wish to make the reading "Bummpy" So how do I keep the persona with out having my readers eyes cross?
     
  4. SWriter
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    SWriter Member

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    The wee free men by terry pratchet give a good example of what your trying to achieve here "ye ken?"


    "Ye've got tae let me go sooner or later, you big 'natomy!" yelled Rob Anybody. "And then ye're gonna get sich a kickin'!" ------- From 'A Hat Full of Sky' by terry pratchett. quote pulled off wiki
     
  5. SWriter
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    SWriter Member

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    if it was me personally I would pick out maybe 7 or 8 words that he puts a heavy irish accent on regularly with the odd exception, kinda like his signature words... "yer" "yon" "wee (little)" that sort of thing. But mostly I would just try and make the content of what he says more irish. for instance he probably wouldnt say "All right ye wee ones" he would probably say something more to the effect of "Right ye lil toe rags!" if we are sterio typing here he needs to be a bit more agressive.

    General slang would be a good way of getting the idea across. http://www.irishslang.co.za/print.htm for some terms
     
  6. thewordsmith
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    thewordsmith Contributing Member Contributor

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    Despite a few actual spelling errors, I had no problem reading it. I thought it flowed well and was easy enough to read. I did find myself hoping there was not an overabundance of such dialectic speech or, as Cogito already noted, it would, indeed, get wicked annoying.
     
  7. lostinwebspace
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    lostinwebspace Active Member

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    In a case like the above, though, how much is too much? Even when all the words are words and not phonetic spellings, such as when dropping G's at the end of verbs or gerunds, when does it get to the point where readers are swimming through too much?
     
  8. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    The professor has this section and a few like 2 lines at th end of the test. I don't plan on re intorducing him in the book untill much much later, when someone needs a whol Lot of luck on their side.

    All that (mistakes in spelling etc.) aside thanks for the comments I think I will maybe tweek it a little bit to make it a bit shorter for the reader but still have the same Umph.


    I just have to say I love this sight.
    And Cog, Not only bostoniaties say "wicked" ;) It's been a part of my vocab since I was in second grade... that and "radical" I also refer to guys as "cat" sometimes.

    I took a class once where the prof swore that you can just about guess a persons age based on the words they use *within 5 yrs*... Hes never been wrong so far. :D
     
  9. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    EXACTLY! spot on, nice show :D
     
  10. lostinwebspace
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    lostinwebspace Active Member

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    I'd beware of that example, though. Terry Pratchett can get away with a lot of stuff that we can't.
     
  11. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    lots of ppl can do lots of things that others can't look at liz taylor and her eyebrows :eek: lol jk but really, I will take the comments into consideration during re writes.
    tyvm all
     
  12. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    Cogito,
    Since you raised the subject of selecting just a few (dialiectic) words I gave it a whirl.

    So guys is this better than the first run?

    Hurrying through the maze of hallways to the classroom she reached the doorway. Entering, she was exactly 10 minuets early. Taking her name from the board she went to her assigned station and waited. Slowly students started to meander in. At 2:29 Professor Shamlin entered the room and closed the door smacking his Shillelagh on the floor three times. This sealed the entryway.

    This particular Shillelagh as one unfortunate Demon had learned is loaded, making it easier for the Leprechaun to disarm his opponent it was long and black, shiny and weighted at its knobby top making it the perfect weapon for someone of his stature.

    “All right ye wee ones time ter get this show on thee road. Is everyone ready?” He began “Check ye ink wells and grab yer bonnets it’s going ter be a wild ride.” The class erupted into chuckles. “Take yer quills and slide box out, ye can open it in a moment. First thee rules, there be no talking, no cheating and no leaving with out me permission. Ye got five minuets ter review before the spell is cast. After that ye be knowing thee rules.” He spoke in his thick Irish accent.

    Tamari raised her hand, lighting quick Professor Shamlin was at her side

    “And what do ye want lil’ missy?”

    “Professor, I request permission to use the restroom Sir.”

    “Now ye know ye can’t be leaving in thee midst of a session.” He exclaimed with mock dismay. “but I will make an exception this once. Anyone else need to make use of thee ladies room while we be at it?” He addressed the class with a sigh.
    Gia raised her hand. He wrote out hall passes for each of them “Ye both need ter be back by 2:35 sharp, else ye won’t be getting back in. Understand?”

    They nodded as he rapped his Shillelagh on the floor allowing them to pass through. They could hear him tapping the floor again as the door closed behind them. They all but ran to the restroom to make the dead line, returning with 30 seconds to spare. They knocked on the door and they heard the tapping sound from behind it. Safely inside the class room again he sealed the entrance as they took their seats.

    “Books down, time be up, ye got one hour ter finish.” He spoke the spell and again lips were sealed tight. Tamari picked up her box of slides, and quill scribbling her answers on the blank parchment as she went through the slides.
     
  13. thewordsmith
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    thewordsmith Contributing Member Contributor

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    I would have to hazard a guess he was referring to the modestly under-educated "average" writer. (And before anyone castigates me, no, I am not referring to, or meaning to insult novelists in general and I am not disparaging the populace at-large. But, the fact of the matter is, the educational system in most of the world - and most espcially in America - have failed the students who have ventured through them.) My vocabulary has not changed appreciably since I was twelve years old. I doubt seriously your old prof would look at my high school papers and say, "Hmm. This person is about 15 years old." More likely, I'd guess he would assume the writings to be those of a twenty or thirty-something person. My gratitude for my expansive vocabulary goes to my grandmother - a brilliant woman who insisted that minds were only as small as we allowed them to be - and she refused to accept any of her progeny and heirs to be small-minded in any way. God love'er.
     
  14. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    No I don't mean like that for instance,
    people who say dungarees are usualy between 40- 50 yrs old.
    People who reffer to a male as "cat" are in the 30-40 age range.

    It is also possiable to tell where a person (or their family spent most of their time.

    Sweet peppers as they call them in the south we here inthe north call bananna peppers.
    I have heard new yorkers call them pepperchinos (sp)
    He called them "dialectic markers."
     
  15. thewordsmith
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    thewordsmith Contributing Member Contributor

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    Ah! Now THAT makes sense (and gives me more respect for your prof). Though I'm not sure they are so much dialectic markers as age (as in a time or generation) markers.

    And, as far as the regional markers are concerned, that's a little iffy, too. Though I will concede at the outset that, if a person spends a great deal of time in one geographic area they do tend to adopt the local patois. However, some people are very linguistically flexible and will immediately immerse themselves in the local 'color'. But, as soon as they move on to some other place, they can, with equal ease, drop the 'old' linguistic habits and quickly adopt the 'new'. Steve Cauthen, a jockey from Kentucky, sounded like pure hills when he started riding as a bug boy at Churchill Downs. The following year, he went to England to ride and returned home a year later sounding perfectly British. By the time he returned to Europe, he, once again, sounded like a 'good ole Kaintuck boah!" Though, I'm guessing your old prof is probably astute enough to pick those out of the pack, too.

    And, btw, did you know there are both sweet and hot banana peppers? The peperoncinis tend to be small like the hot banana peppers. The larger, small banana-sized ones tend to be the sweets. But be careful because some hot ones can get to be pretty sizeable, too.
    (I have a friend who grows all variety of peppers in his backyard. Makes his own pepper sauces and peanut sauce, too. Yum!)
     
  16. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    Loved my prof, he was a wonderful font of comedic info.
     
  17. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Dialect is not only regional. Dialect varies by social group, including age, and even by individual. You might run across an individual who is in love with the word droll, for example, using it whether it is strictly appropriate or not. When someone like that is influential. others begin to pick up that personal dialect and it begins to spread.

    Paris Hilton was enamored of the phrase, "That's hot." It became a running joke, and people, whether they adored or despised her, began overusing it as well.

    So don't think of dialogue only in regional terms. It's particularly powerful in character differentiation.

    "Get out!"

    No, really.

    "Oh get out! You're yanking me around."

    Whatever.
     
  18. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    Too true, the whole catch phrase phenom of current does make that lesson sorta moot....:rolleyes:

    however, the question still begs an answer is the re write better or worse now than it was before?
     

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