1. Boring Editor
    Offline

    Boring Editor Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    3

    A Quick Question

    Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by Boring Editor, Jan 21, 2011.

    Is the Short Story section hidden from search engines and only visible to members?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. SashaMerideth
    Offline

    SashaMerideth Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Messages:
    310
    Likes Received:
    9
    Location:
    California
    Only visible to members, yes. Hidden from search engines? Maybe. Take a story a few months old, and throw a sentence into Google, surrounded by double quotes, and see what comes up. Don't forget the site:writingforums.org modifier to restrict results to this site.
     
  3. PapaSmurfberry
    Offline

    PapaSmurfberry Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2011
    Messages:
    216
    Likes Received:
    87
    Location:
    Jacksonville FL
    Search Engines give higher creditability to forums and rank them higher based upon content.
    Not this forum, but another I recently found some of my old work based upon pulling up a search for a term from google so more then likely yes, unless of course the forum has a robot.txt written specifically to tell search engines not to search the directory where the forums is storied or to only go but so deep. Good question no one could definitively answer it but the person who is actually running the site, I doubt a mod would even know.
     
  4. Banzai
    Offline

    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Messages:
    12,871
    Likes Received:
    150
    Location:
    Reading, UK
    I don't believe that the Review Room is visible to search engines. Certainly the threads within those forums can only be viewed by members.
     
  5. Space_Goose
    Offline

    Space_Goose Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    This question goes along with the question I was about to ask. I know that a lot of publishing companies will not publish you if you have posted your work "even a chapter" in a public place. So I was kind of wondering the same thing that the above asked as I don't want to post any of my work if it rules out me ever being able to publish it if I ever got the opportunity.
     
  6. Banzai
    Offline

    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2007
    Messages:
    12,871
    Likes Received:
    150
    Location:
    Reading, UK
    You should take a look at this thread, regarding first publishing rights.
     
  7. Steerpike
    Online

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,123
    Likes Received:
    5,322
    Location:
    California, US
    You don't want to publish anything on this site that you intend to have published in the future, even if it is only a portion of the work. The First Rights issue is one concern. In addition, according to the site rules you relinquish control over your work as soon as you publish here. Not a good idea if you have commercial aspirations for that work.
     
  8. Space_Goose
    Offline

    Space_Goose Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2010
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thanks for the information...I won't post anything then more than maybe a sentence or two.
     
  9. Boring Editor
    Offline

    Boring Editor Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Messages:
    37
    Likes Received:
    3
    If the forum is hidden to non-members, first rights are protected. Since it is, you can post what you want & you'll keep your first pub. rights.
     
  10. Steerpike
    Online

    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2010
    Messages:
    11,123
    Likes Received:
    5,322
    Location:
    California, US
    You should check with your target publication first. This is true of most publications, or at least was the last time I've looked. But I've seen a few that consider even forums that are hidden to non-members to extinguish first rights if any member of the public can sign up and access the forums for free (i.e. the forums aren't limited to a small group). For those publishers, if you have a ten-second registration process and suddenly you have a password to the protected forums, they don't consider that a significant barrier.

    And you still have the issue of losing control over the work.
     
  11. mammamaia
    Offline

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    19,316
    Likes Received:
    1,014
    Location:
    Coquille, Oregon
    aside from the first rights issue, consider this:

    if you were a publisher, would you feel like paying for something that you hope to make people pay to read, when it can be read for free on a website?
     
  12. Cogito
    Offline

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    35,935
    Likes Received:
    2,043
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    The more reputable search engines do not have access to the Review Room. However, there are bot accounts that feed rogue search engines and archives, although we ban them when we detect them.

    A "member" is any successfully created account, and of course we don't require proof of identity such as Verisign certificates in order to join.
     
  13. Daniel
    Offline

    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,571
    Likes Received:
    402
    Location:
    Peoria, Illinois
    Just to clarify: Search engines do not have access to anything posted in the review rooms. Anyone can register and view it, but writing workshop content should not show up in the search engine index.

    Cogito mentioned rouge search engines - I've never heard of such a thing. It's possible bots can craw workshop content that's been archived prior to us hiding the workshop from search engines, but anything new posted won't be indexed.
     
  14. Cogito
    Offline

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    35,935
    Likes Received:
    2,043
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    I've banned a number of "archive bots" in the past. They aren't easy to catch, but sometimes you see them over several days never posting but following a systematic traversal of the forums. Also, they are often detected and tattled on by honeypot sites.

    I've seen them particularly from certain geographical regions.

    I'm sure there are many such accounts that have never been caught. I don't generally have time to chase them down, so it's only when the behavior is blatant that they catch my attention.

    Only anonymous search engines are actually prevented from archiving Writing Workshop posts. There is a "don't catalogue" attribute you can attach to a set of web pages (I don't recall exactly how it is applied), but compliance with the request is voluntary.
     
  15. mammamaia
    Offline

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    19,316
    Likes Received:
    1,014
    Location:
    Coquille, Oregon
    cog...

    if i'm reading you correctly, this means that one can never consider any supposedly 'safe' review section completely safe and thus still never post a complete piece of work that one may want to submit for publication later...

    yes/si/oui or no/no/non?

    m
     
  16. Daniel
    Offline

    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,571
    Likes Received:
    402
    Location:
    Peoria, Illinois
    I'd be interested in reading more about this. I've never heard of any such thing.

    So these search engine bots would have to create an account here, correct? Which presumably would need some sort of manual review to get past the registration confirmation. For the don't catelogue, are you referring to rel="nofollow"?
     
  17. Arathald
    Offline

    Arathald Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2011
    Messages:
    314
    Likes Received:
    17
    Location:
    Seattle
    IIRC from my days actively doing web development, it's in the robots.txt file in a particular directory. As Cogito said, it's completely voluntary, and I would specifically expect non-mainstream crawlers (i.e. things that aren't Google or Bing) to ignore it.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robots_exclusion_standard

    Edit: looks to be per domain/subdomain, not directory

    Edit2: rel="nofollow" also looks to be an optional command for crawlers, but to suppress following links on a particular page
     
  18. Cogito
    Offline

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    35,935
    Likes Received:
    2,043
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    A truly closed critiquing circle is relatively safe. By this, I mean a room in which only a small set of members have access, with each member approved by the other members of the group.

    That is in contrast to a room open to anyone is a member of the site or of a global group.

    The problem is, the site has to support it, and have suypport staff who can create a new custom group at need and assign limited access to a room based on that group. As you can imagine, that could become quite a logistic burden.
     
  19. Daniel
    Offline

    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,571
    Likes Received:
    402
    Location:
    Peoria, Illinois
    I'm nearly positive that robots.txt and rel="nofollow" has nothing to do with bots/search engines archiving things in the review room. Yes, they can effect what pages bots are told to index, but since the writing workshop requires registration, only a bot that actually registers a username could have access. Regardless, I've no doubts that bots exist that have this capability to register accounts. I've just never encountered them.
     
  20. Daniel
    Offline

    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

    Joined:
    May 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,571
    Likes Received:
    402
    Location:
    Peoria, Illinois
    This is actually within the realm of possibility and wouldn't be that difficult to set-up with "out-of-the-box" vbulletin.
     

Share This Page