A unique question I kind of feel bad about to ask. (Mature Content)

Again, she's not doing anything wrong having sex with them. It's just that she is in a position where her relationship with them is unfortunately corrupt. They have all the power. To bring back another example, think of school teachers or prison guards. They get punished for sex with their charges even if they're of age, consenting and it's done safely. Because the power dynamic is such that you can't trust it. It sounds unfair at first, and it is harsh, but there's not really any way around it. Maybe if they left the environment and met as equal civilians? Maybe after they left school/prison completely? That would probably be okay, I think. But she doesn't have any feasible escape routes as far as I can see. All sexual relations are invalidated by the fact she's not capable of considering consent properly. There is no consent. Only obedience. We could find a lawyer and ask them; but I'm pretty damn sure this circumstance is just too one-sided and corrupt for it to work. As sad as it is; no, she probably can't have sex. Unless someone can cure her and she can start thinking for herself. And comparing that idea, based on law and consideration of true consent, with concern for safety and freedom, to bigots spouting bullshit is a false comparison. Especially seeing as more than half of those people objected to gay marriage; that's hypocrisy. Is that the standard you hold me to be? Or anyone else that has argued this point? Why did you bring that up?

 

I made the comparison because you were saying she can have sex if it wasn't with an Alpha. But she always seeks an Alpha. So you were saying it was fine for her to have sex if she fulfilled a condition she can't really fulfill.

But then again, you admitted it here. So, not a point I need to push further. I actually I feel unable to really combat this post.

So I am going to tag some people to see if they want to try. I am thinking they could do it better than me.

@Nicoel
@ArcticOrchid
@LinnyV
@I Am Vague

 

My problem with the argument she has some kind of consent is the emotional push. Sometimes what feels wrong is right. Because our emotional responses to moral decisions are prone to irrationality. We have to think through it. Yet all the arguments I've heard mention how it's unfortunate she can't have sex, it's putting her down or something to make her a bit of a victim, it's not fair to people with conditions. It kind of sounds like: "don't you see how mean you're being?!!" And I worry there's too much emotional pleading there. That maybe some people are being influenced by there feelings to lean more to the can consent side. Remember, humans are not always logical. Even when we use good logic, we can be swayed by more primal thoughts subliminally. Not that I'm saying that's necessarily the case here. More that it's better to focus on our logic here, emotions will be there anyway, no need to bring them to the forefront.

 

Yeah, I mean you made your position clear. I don't much have a response, hence me tagging other people. lol.

On a side note, I thought you might find this interesting.

https://www.writingforums.org/threads/submissions-closed-for-contest-186-birth.144034/

My entry in there. It features Sky's Alpha as the lead male. I figured you might find that interesting. Actually Sky probably teleported him there in the scene, but was told to wait someone else. Sky developed a bad habit of killing people that looked at her Alpha and at this point in the story, she is almost faster than him. He has lost potential allies in a blink. lol. But Ivy and Sky probably become friends. So, I thought you might find it interesting. If not, pay it no mind. lol

 

I might be missing something because I'm going off of just this one post, but I don't think you can compare teachers and prison guards to this. Those are only bad in the sense that it's not professional or appropriate for their work - A prison guard much less so. You'll probably get fired if anyone finds out. That's just a blatant disregard to your authority and position to be having sex on the job. Sure, when you go home, and the convict is out of prison it's fine. It can be as safe and consensual as it can be, it's still a matter of you doing something inappropriate and it's not what they're paying you for. A teacher and a student? Yeah, I mean, there's nothing really wrong with that if the student's of age, because I feel like that would be the age difference if anything that would get people riled up. Other than the fact that it's not appropriate for their job, there's nothing really wrong with either of those.

The acts she does with him fulfill her, unless GuardianWynn has revealed that Sky is aware of her disorder and doesn't like it. Admittedly, I haven't read every single post in this, so, I wouldn't know for sure.

She's not a dog waiting for a treat. She's not a slave held against her will. She's doing these for a reason - Making him happy in a way that makes gives her happiness as well. His happiness is hers. Well... that's love isn't it? She does have a choice. She chooses who to feel this way about. She chooses an Alpha, whoever deserves the title most, that is who her whole world revolves around. Is it really so different from me getting flowers for a woman I love? Me going above and beyond to keep her in my life, albeit, her case is much, much, much more on the extreme side, but, again, I feel it's obsession. She feels like she can't let him down, whereas I can easily forget an anniversary and generally be okay with it. I might get in a little bit of trouble afterwards though lol, but it's not the end of the world.

 

My point is legally prisoners can't consent. That's a fact in America. Same with students; if you're sixteen/seventeen, age of consent, you're only allowed to have sex with people in that age bracket. (This is Australian law with that. You guys have various ages) And her condition produces the illusion of choice. She chooses based on criteria that were set by the condition. That's like commanding a woman to have sex with a blond guy, and then we she finds one saying she "choose" him even though you gave her that mission. She doesn't even want to have sex with them. If you look at the excerpt, she doesn't even understand sexual pleasure, and is motivated by obedience not that pleasure. It's not love, it's an unhealthy, somewhat deluded attachment to a figure of supposed authority and perfection in a relationship that can only continue if the Alpha is fine with using her condition. What's in there that has anything to do with a proper, real sexual relationship? Is your image of what sex should be like close to that?

 

Can I ask what the verdict is on the whole thing currently @GuardianWynn ? It's just that we're going on 10 pages and I'm just wondering if it's gotten us anywhere closer to figuring this out yet.

 

Yes and no. I have reached a conclusion myself a while back. I am almost sad the thread is still going because I reached my conclusion, but I am just a sucker for an interesting post, and well I feel bad to not stay active on the topic I started.

My conclusion. There is no answer. The situation is just complicated and it can't be defined by a simply yes or no. At least not in the abstract way I asked. Sure, maybe legally it would count as rape. I don't know but that doesn't matter. This thread has been very useful in pointing out very strong and different ideas and in many ways, they are all right. I suppose myself I am leaning towards not rape now because she is happy with the situation. I am not saying that happiness turns rape into not rape. Rather, I am saying that as a person, she would be more heartbroken if she was denied the ability to do what she does. She understands basic mechanics of things. She is not being tricked, and she is happy. So in that sense I think it comes down not rape. But that opinion doesn't stop the validity of anyone who thinks it is rape.

Does that answer your question?

 

Not to send this back six pages but have you tried looking at this?

http://www.webmd.com/anxiety-panic/guide/dependent-personality-disorder

 

Wow. Hit the nail on the head. She checks off nearly every symptom. I would say in her case, she doesn't fantasize and she doesn't mind being alone(under certain conditions.)

In her case she hates being idle. If she has been given a project, even one that requires her to be alone. She is fine, up to the projects end I would say.

It even points out why she isn't suffering BPD lol. Nice post. You said a lot with 2 lines.

 

In our society, sex requires consent.

She is incapable of consent.

Therefore, anyone who has sex with her, and who knows about her condition, is committing a huge moral violation.

As far as I'm concerned, that's that.

You seem to be thinking that the fact that this keeps her from having sex is somehow dreadful enough that we should change the conclusion. But it seems to me that the lack of sex is one of the least of her issues. It's immeasurably small when compared to the overall lack of freedom.

In our society, slavery is wrong.

She has created a situation where she MUST be a slave.

She has created a situation where no moral outcome is possible. She has created a situation where she must find someone who is fundamentally immoral.

But that doesn't change the fact that her Alpha, if he or she acts as an Alpha and gives her orders, IS fundamentally immoral. Whether she's having sex on command or making chocolate chip cookies on command, the situation is immoral.

It would theoretically be possible for her to happen upon the most moral possible Alpha, someone who would search for a way to get the closest to what she might actually want, a way to make her seek out and find her own wishes. But that person has no business having sex with her. Ever.

 

You are awesome! Not sure if it interests you, but I posted a short story on her just to give it some better reference points.

Seriously, you are awesome.

The trick I found quite compelling from other arguments though is well. Is she really wrong? I mean, yeah. I doubt anyone is going to argue her situation as ideal. But she is happy, for the most part. And I related her condition to being a result of a brain defect. Meaning she can't be fixed. She would resist and run if someone tried.

So, it seems like she is being placed in this category of helpless victim even though she is quite passionate in her believes and confident in her desires. So she is being placed her purely based on the fact her situation is unique? As I think the ArcticOrcid put it. That is like saying she is an "eternal child" or someone that must be cared for and is not allowed to live as she sees fit(ironically enough) because of her unique condition.

Though you are right. Taking advantage of someone you know is handicaped is like, straight into jerk field for me. Considering how I named the topic, I probably wouldn't be able to have sex with her myself for the very reasons you listed. But the original aspect of the question I think is about her. If that makes sense. And if she is happy, and healthy. Is that really so immoral? I know yes that is your argument, and like I said earlier. I kind of am still on the fence. This is such a tricky topic. I am seriously believing that it is just not simple enough to force into something like yes or no. Does that make sense?