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  1. LordKyleOfEarth
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    LordKyleOfEarth Contributing Member Contributor

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    American Debt-Default...<sigh>

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by LordKyleOfEarth, Jul 29, 2011.

    I really am unhappy with my government officials right now. Tomorrow I leave for a weekend birthday retreat. When I come back, the interest rates on my student loans may have doubled. The worst part is that Congress seems to care more about their own political posturing than the welfare of the people who they are trying to posture FOR. This is totally insane.
     
  2. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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  3. LordKyleOfEarth
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    LordKyleOfEarth Contributing Member Contributor

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    I may not be, but my parents are. This entire thing is a disgrace. The frightening part is how many people don't seem to understand/care about the debacle. Both US and Global impacts will be huge, should the US default.

    I feel for you Maia.
     
  4. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    Politicians in Washington are interested in maintaining/increasing political power. Period. If you think more than a bare handful of them are up there for you, you're nuts :)
     
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  5. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    Too true!

    my soultion is posted in the thread Maia had started about old people going poof!
     
  6. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    The sad thing is that people buy into the scare tactics. They get their news straight from the mouth of a politician of their liking, or from talking heads, and take it at face value, with no pause to think about things.

    The U.S. has enough revenue this year to pay SS, Medicare and Medicaid, and that's after paying interest on the debt and without creating more debt (i.e. raising the debt ceiling).

    But the politicians try to scare you by saying SS checks won't go out and people eat it up.
     
  7. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    Yeah, personaly I think it is high time for a carefully controled revolt/revolution... but that is just me. :rolleyes:
    I wonder how much $ can be saved by nixing the TSA and forcing airports to hire their own ppl??? hmmm...
     
  8. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    Oh and heres a random thought...

    Why did we the people pay to keep open corps that have proven they can not change with the times and maintain their profits? Let em go bankrupt I mean really now... Who's going to send me a big fat check if I accidently over draft? G double R
     
  9. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    Politicians have a lot of ties to those big corps that get bailouts. Look at the ties to bailout recipients in both the Obama and Bush admins, as well as in Congress.
     
  10. LordKyleOfEarth
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    LordKyleOfEarth Contributing Member Contributor

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    I agree that there is political 'fluffing' going on, but you cannot honestly believe that a 40% reduction in income won't have devastating repercussions on the American people and world economies.

    Do you have any source material that shows that there is enough revenue to continue with everything through the end of the year?
     
  11. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    Yeps, sucked then sucks now will suck tomorrow too, get used to it unless we the people start demanding accountability and cese being sheeple this will continue. end of story.
     
  12. Mercurial
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    Mercurial Contributing Member Contributor

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    No joke, 100% agree.
     
  13. Banzai
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    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

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    Isn't "controlled revolution" something of an oxymoron?
     
  14. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Now Banzai. What is the point of a revolution without dancing?
     
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  15. Banzai
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    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

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    Oh, so this is actually a revolutionary training manual then:
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Have that and a copy of Freedom Fighters and 'Hurrah for comrade Banzai'.
     
  17. Banzai
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    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

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    I'm sure between the two of us we could have the US as a dancing socialist utopia in a matter of weeks :p
     
  18. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I live in hope. :p
     
  19. Mercurial
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    Mercurial Contributing Member Contributor

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    I LOVE THIS IDEA! ;)

    Hehehe.
     
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  20. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    No I offer for exmple the million man march on washington... :rolleyes: the sit in's during the Vietnam war...

    The people were in total control, however it was the institution that got their panties in a twist.
     
  21. Gigi_GNR
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    Gigi_GNR Guys, come on. WAFFLE-O. Contributor

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    I'm so, SO sick of the back-and-forth between the two parties. When did compromise become a dirty word? And the fact that I'm a teenager in these times makes me wonder how growing up with this political atmosphere will be, and if it will ever improve.
     
  22. Banzai
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    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

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    This.

    I do think that the US would benefit from a middle of the road third party, with enough support to make it at least relevant politically. Yes, they invariably turn out to be clueless dickheads *cough*LiberalDemocrats*cough*, but it would move away from such bitter stand-offs.

    Unfortunately for the US, the dichotomy of Republican/Democrat is irrevocably ingrained in the political system, and it'd take nothing short of a miracle to change to a three or even multi-party system.
     
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  23. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    If ever people were ready for a third party it is now sadly most of the third party people are morans like Ross and someother less than savery people.
    IF Farmer John ran for prez I'd be on that like white on rice, as it is I vote for mickey mouse...If everyone voted Mickey, perhas then the Gov would get a fing clue? When a cartoon is voted in over any of the standing canidates... :rolleyes: But it would take people who wanted to vote for a normal party canidate to abstain from the polls, and I don't see that happening any time soon. Sad really
     
  24. chacotaco91
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    chacotaco91 Senior Member

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    Does anyone feel sometimes that this is last great yawn of democracy before it takes its long slumber to oblivion? That the very things that made american democracy so great: representation and citizen involvement particularly, have now become the drug which we cannot seem to free our addiction to.

    I can't seem to remember who said this, but I've heard that "within our victories lies the seeds of our own destruction" or something similar. I believe that's particularly pertinent today.

    Has our political process has become so open, so inclined toward public opinion and populism that it is literally impossible for any political party in America to actually institute long-term beneficial policies? American's have become so institutionalized to support those who promise them what they want to hear and not what they need to hear; that it is literally impossible politically to institute short-term pain for long-term benefits and expect to be re-elected.

    You cannot have increasing goverment programs without expanding taxes and the tax base. This is a simple formula that American's have forgotten because a politician realized he could become quite popular by standing against this axiom.

    Want to eliminate farm subsidies? Some farmers will lose their jobs, someone will be hurt. But our market will be healthier and our taxes lighter. Yet this will not happen: farmers will do tractor protests in Washington, a politican will ride their sentiment to office by making promises he can't keep. Farm subsidies will stay and debt will rise.

    Want to eliminate social security? It could be done incrementally over the years to soften the blow to our soon to be retirees. Some people's long-term financials will be in ruin. Some will need to find other options for their senior years. Some people will get hurt. In the long run however it is best: it would eliminate the burden social security puts on an ever-aging society like ourselves. Younger people would posses more of their own money to invest of save for their own retirement. It would be good for the society in general. Yet this will not happen either: Politicians will rush to the defense of the senior vote, seeing easy opportunity for election. AARP will press hard in Washington, nothing will pass. Social Security will stay, and our debt will rise.

    So we print money, until one day our money will be worth nothing.

    Is it any wonder the Chinese aren't rushing to democracy? It thousands of other aspects they have emulated the American-western model, yet with this they see nothing but poison and eventual destruction.
     
  25. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    No I don't feel that way at all.




    No in fact the exact opposit is the problem, everything has become too complex to hidden for the average American to understand. Public Opinion does not matter to Washington, If you think it does you really should take a harder look at a great many unpopular moves they have made.

    You can and you can't there has to be a ballance, one that they are not willing to find, yes taxes would go up bit if they do things in the right way the increase would be nominal at best.


    Really, eliminate farm sub huh? the only farms that should be getting the subsidies are the small family ones, or the ones who are doing things diffrently. Not the big Farmers who posion people with their nasty food products. Or the ones who make millions growing corn for fuel...
    I grew up on a farm all my friends were farmers,when the normal everyday family farmer is hurting there is a problem with the economy, yet they get ignored by everyone...Did you know that some farmers are paid to NOT plant crops? this is so they can control the market prices of goods...

    Why remove a program that the elderly have paid into their entier lives? Especialy when any saving they might have had have gone up in smoke along with the rest of their investments? You do realize that the average person only pays like 2% of their income a week for SS right?

    So if you work 40 hours a week @ 7.50 it ends up being something like 50 bucks thats not going to get you very far with the over inflated prices of everything. A better option is to force companies to pay an acctual living wages and cap profit margins.

    China, has a society where they are not free to do as they please, the Gov tells them what they are allowed to watch, what they are allowed to do, even how many children they are allowed to have... Forgive me but I will take my imperfect Democracy over totalitarian rule any GD day of the week.
    No system is perfect, and yes as our government expanded they have forgotten what we stand for and who they work for, which is why it is high time the sheeple got off their lazy asses and started standing up for their rights. Now If you really want to fix things I'll tell you how.

    First trim the spending on crack heads, start executing the in prision for life with out chance of release types, after they have exhaused all their appeals of course, and send their family a bill for the single bullet it will take to get the job done.

    Then round up every illegal immigrant in the country and ship them back home. tatooed so they can be spoted if they try it again.

    Next, tell every corporation that if they want to sell goods here, the goods have to be MADE here! everyone would be employed, thus increasing the amount of money the government has to spend on extras... I leave you with a few quotes.

    "A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference."
    Thomas Jefferson

    "A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government."
    Thomas Jefferson

    "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."
    Thomas Jefferson

    "Arbitrary power is most easily established on the ruins of liberty abused to licentiousness."
    George Washington

    "If the freedom of speech is taken away then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter."
    George Washington

    "Democracy... is a charming form of government, full of variety and disorder; and dispensing a sort of equality to equals and unequals alike."
    Plato
    Now for some of my fav's...
    read on if you dare.

    "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism since it is the merger of state and corporate power."
    Benito Mussolini

    "We're not a democracy. It's a terrible misunderstanding and a slander to the idea of democracy to call us that. In reality, we're a plutocracy: a government by the wealthy."
    Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney General

    "But that's the whole point of corporatism: to try and remove the public from making decisions over their own fate, to limit the public arena, to control opinion, to make sure that the fundamental decisions that determine how the world is going to be run —which include production, commerce, distribution, thought, social policy, foreign policy, everything—are not in the hands of the public, but rather in the hands of highly concentrated private power. In effect, tyranny unaccountable to the public."
    Professor Noam Chomsky, interviewed in Corporate Watch

    "As political theorist Michael Parenti points out, historians often overlook Fascism's economic agenda--the partnership between Big Capital and Big Government--in their analysis of its authoritarian social program. Indeed, according to Bertram Gross in his startlingly prescient Friendly Fascism (1980), it is possible to achieve fascist goals within an ostensibly democratic society."
    Richard Heinberg

    "It is to be regretted that the rich and powerful too often bend the acts of government to their selfish purposes. Distinctions in society will always exist under every just government. Equality of talents, of education, or of wealth can not be produced by human institutions. In the full enjoyment of the gifts of Heaven and the fruits of superior industry, economy, and virtue, every man is equally entitled to protection by law; but when the laws undertake to add to these natural and just advantages artificial distinctions, to grant titles, gratuities, and exclusive privileges, to make the rich richer and the potent more powerful, the humble members of society — the farmers, mechanics, and laborers — who have neither the time nor the means of securing like favors to themselves, have a right to complain of the injustice of their government. There are no necessary evils in government. Its evils exist only in its abuses. If it would confine itself to equal protection, and, as Heaven does its rains, shower its favors alike on the high and the low, the rich and the poor, it would be an unqualified blessing."
    Andrew Jackson
     
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