1. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    Another gun question...

    Discussion in 'Research' started by BayView, Jul 3, 2016.

    I have a redneck asshole dad teaching his son to shoot. Probably about twenty-five years ago, if that matters, when the son was seven or eight. Backwoods Montana.

    I figure the dad would use a twenty-two? The least powerful gun that a self-respecting adult might actually have in his arsenal, because this dad wouldn't have bought a gun special for the occasion.

    I want the dad to laugh (cruelly) at some mistake the boy makes when he's trying to figure out how to shoot. Like, the asshole dad just hands the kid the gun, the kid does his best, the dad laughs when...?

    The kid would have grown up around guns and seen them being handled and used, so it shouldn't be a total rookie move. But something that he wouldn't have really understood just from watching, and that his dad should have walked him through, but didn't. Ideas?
     
  2. JLT
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    JLT Active Member

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    You might want to make the gun a little heavier, like a true hunting rifle, and mock the kid for not preparing for the recoil, and reacting to the recoil ... which is something that surprises just about everybody the first time around. You could watch people shoot rifles and pistols for years, but until you have the gun in your own hands, you don't appreciate the power it packs. There are quite a few YouTube videos of first-time shooters getting their shoulders or chins whacked pretty good.
     
  3. Spencer1990
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    Spencer1990 Contributing Member

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    I absolutely agree with JLT. It would be especially believable for the dad to bring that sort of weapon for a young kid because you said yourself he's a "redneck asshole dad". In fact, it seems out of character for him to bring a gun that would be easier for the kid to use. twenty-twos are pretty easy, and the only logical thing that the kid wouldn't account for, as JLT said, is the recoil. (Which is next to absent in twenty-twos.)

    To have the dad bring a gun that is totally inappropriate for a kid to use would not only work for this particular scene but provides great detail to the true nature of the dad. I don't consider myself an asshole parent, and if this were me, I'd bring a twenty-two. If I were an asshole dad, I don't think I'd consider bringing a different weapon just for the sake of the kid.
     
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  4. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    Okay, good points, guys - thanks!

    So what's a reasonable description of the gun he'd use? I've already mentioned that the dad has a Remington shotgun, although I don't think I mentioned anything beyond that level of detail. Would he use a deer rifle? How would this kid, who's grown up to be an ex-military cop, describe the larger weapon from his memory?
     
  5. Spencer1990
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    Spencer1990 Contributing Member

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    I wouldn't be comfortable going into specifics because I'm not familiar enough myself. But if he's remembering it and he's an ex-military cop, he would have pretty profound knowledge of weapons. Even if he didn't know the terms as a boy, he'd know them as an adult and be able to impose the terms he didn't know before on the memory.

    You should look into brand names, specific brand names. Guns usually have pretty specific names becasue there are so many variations. Do a bit of Google research and find a gun you think looks right, and get the specifics.
     
  6. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    The focus of the scene is more on the adult son trying to find a happy memory of his dad and failing, because the dad was such an asshole. I'm sure the adult son would KNOW the details of the gun, but I'm not sure he'd really think about them, because he'd be taking them for granted.

    Like, if a couple guys are sitting around shooting the shit, talking about experiences with their dad, I think they'd be more likely to say something like "He handed me his deer rifle--a 30-06--and just expected me to be able to fire it," rather than "He handed me his Browning Bar Safari Lightweight 30-06 and just expected me to be able to fire it." Does that make sense?

    So I don't think I need the highly technical definition, I just need the "common" way someone would refer to the gun.

    ETA: And I'm hoping someone can tell me whether it would be realistic for a 7 or 8 year old to have trouble with the gun on the first shot but be able to come back and shoot it competently after adjusting.
     
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  7. Spencer1990
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    Spencer1990 Contributing Member

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    You're absolutely right. If it's just mentioning the gun in passing, but not the focus of the memory, then you wouldn't get technical. For whatever reason, I was picturing the gun as the focus of the memory. In that sense, it would be practical to use the technical terms.

    As for your other question, a lot of it depends on the kid and the gun. A rifle with pretty big recoil would be tough for a kid to shoot competently, adjustments or not. A lesser recoil would be a different story. Although I shot a 12-gauge shotgun just fine at eleven or so years old.

    I'm just talking here. Sorry if I'm not providing the kind of feedback that is more helpful to you.
     
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  8. matwoolf
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    matwoolf Contributing Member Contributor

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    There is pleasure to be found - in the white space - with your dilemma,

    'He handed me the twelve bore. I was five years old, wanted to shoot the bear for daddy.'

    'The little guy. You want another beer, Brad?'

    'No, no, gotta get back for contact-free, supervised, touch football with the guys.'

    'Sure thing.'

    ...ditch modifiers like 'just,' too directional - lead me [as the reader] to decision make...I think.
     
  9. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    No, it's useful... I'm just sorting through ideas.

    The scenario as I have it thus far is:

    He made himself think about the good times with his father; surely there had been some. The old man teaching the son to shoot—that was a Hallmark moment, at least for Redneck Hallmark. But Eli had been half-drunk when he’d taken Jericho out into the backyard and handed him a 30-06. He’d laughed when Jericho had stumbled backward and cried out at the recoil of the first shot, laughed again when Jericho had summoned his courage, tucked the stock in tighter to his shoulder, and shot again, sending the bullet far from the target. The third shot had brought a satisfying “clink”, though, and Jericho had looked over at his dad, hoping—no, actually expecting—to finally see some approval on the bastard’s face. But Eli had just grunted something about how anyone who wasn’t totally blind could hit a tin can from that close, and told Jericho to stop wasting ammunition on target shooting.
    I could certainly switch it to a shotgun or different rifle size... if it were a shotgun, they wouldn't be shooting at a tin can, though, would they? Or at least not a stationary one? Or could that be the dad's final dig, instead of the "that close" comment - anyone could hit a stationary target with a shotgun?

    Are there other issues with the paragraph as written, gun-wise?
     
  10. matwoolf
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    matwoolf Contributing Member Contributor

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    Simply, abuse of the word 'had.'

    "Shoot 'had' after first usage, junior," he said.
     
  11. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    Trying to focus on the gun aspect, not the writing style.
     
  12. matwoolf
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    matwoolf Contributing Member Contributor

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    sorry, I am pig, sorry and unkind, sorry.

    Suppose I'm frustrated by a most difficult thing - telling not to like the Dad, when it could be invisible.
     
  13. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    The GUNS, matwoolf, the GUNS.
     
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  14. matwoolf
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    matwoolf Contributing Member Contributor

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    I don't know anything about guns, though @BV, you are in the right place for gun talk. I remember last time diagrams, Remington, Colt, velocity, impact, kill distance were all forthcoming. Very sorry @BV, I'll go skulk elsewhere, do reckon big gun, and not a little gun as poster said.
     
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  15. Spencer1990
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    Spencer1990 Contributing Member

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    I see nothing wrong with the gun aspect of that section you have there. Generally, people don't target shoot with shotguns. I'm sure some do, but not many. The sport shooting with scattershot usually revolves around moving targets. Writing with the use of shot guns and moving targets (clay pigeons), could be an interesting scene. But I do like that you have.
     
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  16. Iain Aschendale
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    Iain Aschendale Contributed Member Contributor

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    I'm a gun guy, and I like it. One other suggestion for dad mocking the kid is the kid having a flinch. Flinching is one problem that many shooters struggle with, where instead of squeezing the trigger smoothly with the body held motionless, they (we, let's be honest) tighten up and yank the trigger, which moves the muzzle off the target at the critical moment. If the first shot scared the kid, as the dad might expect, Dad might have only put one in the magazine to check/have a laugh at the kid's flinch when he pulled the trigger for the second time.
     
  17. Earp
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    Earp Active Member

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    Yes, and inexperienced shooters tend to hold the butt of the gun away from their shoulders, resulting in a painful shock from recoil.

    I'll also respectfully suggest that 'redneck' is every bit as offensive an ethnic slur as 'nigger' or 'spic'.
     
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  18. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    I'll suggest that when white people have centuries of oppression behind them, they can start comparing their treatment to others. Anyway, I'm white, so... I guess I can call my people what I want?
     
  19. matwoolf
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    matwoolf Contributing Member Contributor

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    ...but then they ain't your people..and that's the problem in our divided nations. One voice is superior and dismissive of the less educated, and they are the same as you, as clever really, we are no different under our schooling - how can we be different? Not to say ignorance is bliss, but educated folk should lead, not snipe in coffee shops, heh heh...

    Something like that, Robert Tressel said it best in 'Ragged Trousered Philanthropists.' I said it for play only. 'Rednecks' is quite nasty.

    [see chav]

    ...
    [weirdo post special]
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2016
  20. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    So, not an ethnic slur, but a class slur?

    I know plenty of less-educated people who aren't rednecks.

    I mean, we could call a certain type of highly educated people snobs or elitists, and it wouldn't be an ethnic slur, and, in my opinion, wouldn't be inappropriate. Using names to reflect people's attitudes and behaviour seems like fair game, to me. So calling a certain type of uneducated people rednecks? I'm pretty comfortable with it.

    In this situation, the father is half-drunk while "teaching" his young son to shoot with a 30-06. It's not because the father is uneducated; it's not because he's poor, or rural. It's because he's thoughtless, clings to an outmoded, selfish, short-sighted way of seeing the world, etc.

    My family on one side is generally uneducated, poor, and rural. Only some of them are rednecks.
     
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  21. matwoolf
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    matwoolf Contributing Member Contributor

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    I don't know, I just ran with it :/

    ...
    All kinds of messy stuff in our politics at the moment, I'm unravelling, working it out, shouldn't impose my crap on your thread.
     
  22. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    As a white man from the Deep South, I hereby give @BayView permission to use the word ‘redneck’ because fuck political correctness, yo.

    I keep imagining Mr. Redneck Paw handing his son the biggest shottie he could find at the local gun store. Maybe the son fails/gets hurt and Mr. Redneck Paw berates him for it? Calls him a pansy?
     
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  23. Iain Aschendale
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    Iain Aschendale Contributed Member Contributor

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    [​IMG]
     
  24. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    @BayView , let this humble Yank point you to a youtube channel that may assist you.

    https://m.youtube.com/channel/UChk5eyAGuO3J4rV-CiMNkNQ

    This guy is an expert on guns. Maybe this could help? He goes into the detail of the type of guns and demonstrates their firepower by shooting them in target ranges. Hope this helps you. Looking forward to reading this story when it's published. :D
     
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  25. RobT
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    RobT Active Member

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    The young lad could close his eyes, or forget to take off the safety, or he didn't put a round in the breech.
     
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