Oh, if you haven't, you MUST read Mark Twain's essay/critique on the Leatherstocking books. It's entitled James Fenimore Cooper's Literary Offenses, and it's one of the funniest pieces of writing by anybody, ever. Even though I've read it umpteen times, it still makes me laugh. And no, you don't need to have read the Leatherstocking Tales to appreciate it. In fact, after reading this essay, you won't touch Cooper with a barge pole ever ...barge pole, ah ha haha...you'll get it, if you read the essay...
American Psycho. There were lengthy passages and some chapters, particularly those that were simply detailed album reviews, that I never finished because it was just too disturbing or mind-numbing, or both. I do consider myself as having read the book though. I started at the beginning and fought my way to the last page! And even though I had to skip past some scenes, I followed the actual story well enough to really appreciate the book as a fantastic work of art and critique on modern society. To this day, the book (and the movie as well; I think the story was really well adapted for film) is a strong source of inspiration for me. It was the first story that demonstrated to me how a story can be more than for entertainment's sake; it can be a powerful method of communication, and a beautiful way to convey very complicated ideas.
Roderic Barman's Citizen Emperor, a biography of the second king of Brazil, was too much of a slog for me. It's packed with information, but the dull writing could only be absorbed a few pages at a time. I suspect that it is a repackaged thesis.
I have been unable to finish reading a few translated books. But when I know the original language, and I know the original texts well enough this ... tends to happen. There are also, I must admit, my own opinions on interpreting the original work that has turned me away from certain translators too. Sure that might not be very fair, or even very smart, but I can't help it.
Just did this on a horror books thread ... But here goes: Da Vinci Code is one I couldn't see through to the end. It was pap. Other books I haven't completed recently include Mieville's Kraken. After the brilliance of The Scar and Perdido Street Station, this one was a bloated, sunken lump of a book. Very disappointed with it and couldn't see it through. Since then I haven't picked up another Mieville book anticipating flourishes of brilliance but ultimately dissapointment. Damn shame.
Paradise Lost is something you really do have to prepare for. It is another one of those works where the going will be very tough, but the more you put in the more you will get out. It's best to read it aloud, and buy a copy of the poem with good notes to help you. And also, I must admit, reading a few essays on the poem will also help hugely. Yale University posts lectures on YouTube, and there is an entire module-worth of lectures on John Milton's work. That can be indispensable if you want a really good, in depth knowledge and appreciation of Paradise Lost. It's a very important and interesting work. I'm not a believer in God, but the moral and ethical problem Paradise Lost poses is certainly not lost on me. Does Milton justify 'the ways of God to men'. I don't think he does, but then again I would think that. Milton is one of those writers, like Homer, Virgil, Dante, or Shakespeare; his reputation always precedes him, so just approaching their work can be very intimidating. To help, there is a lot out there. The language is hard, yes, and Milton uses words in utterly unique ways; I recommend the Penguin Classics edition if you can get it, it has excellent end notes, and listening to it read out, you can find a number of readings of the poem online, especally on YouTube. This reading of the first two stanzas is electrifying: I can also help you too. If you want then send me a PM and I can give explaining it a try.
Thanks Lemex, you're completely right. Everything you've said, I know about, it's just a book I don't have the time or energy to invest in at the moment (just too much other school work and such). I've read a nice chunk of it, I've done some research, and we had a decent unit on it in one of my classes last semester. One of my favorite takeaways from that class is that I can read and understand more of Paradise Lost than ever before. It's just a monster of writing, so dense and so rich, one must really be prepared going in. The questions and themes that Milton raise in this book are incredible. Does he justify the ways of God to men? It depends on who you're asking. He basically paints God as a storyteller, and everything was and is a part of divine plan. But there's more than that. It brings up new ways to think of God, and heavenly, and divine order (hierarchical). It challenges the idea that Satan is the villain by choice. It also paints a very unprecedented picture of life in the Garden before the fall. Is rooted in religious and political conflict as well. So much come out of this book, but Milton certainly wrote for a highly intelligent/educated audience, and even they might have had some challenges (the whole this is made more difficult now simply due to the language and references, which are somewhat lost on youth today). Great tip on listening and reading aloud. When I first tried reading aloud it really helped me gain a rhythm. I just keep stopping to think about things. Maybe listening and reading along will help me focus. (I also kept falling asleep because I would read in late afternoon or at night... I need a better time, when I'm more alert.)
Otherland, by Tad Williams. I loved his Memory, Sorrow and Thorn series, and to be frank I loved the first book or so of Otherland. But I think my memory and attention span have gotten worse as I've gotten older and I can't keep all the damn pronouns organized in my head, and I feel weird about notetaking while pleasure reading. But I plan on trying Otherland again someday. And I recommend it.
Hate to say it, I know he's a bestselling author and probably far more talented than I'll ever be, but pretty much any James Patterson novel. My Girlfriend has almost every one of his books and I can't make it past chapter five in most of them. Mainly because it's the same story rehashed over and over. Good looking guy driving a Mercedes (it's always a Mercedes) goes to a crime scene, looks at dead body, meets super sexy woman, they go out a few times, hunky detective solves the case, everyone lives happily ever after. Or at least that's my take on it.
Twilight. Had to read it for a uni course, but I just never managed to finish it. Richard Kadrey's Kill the Dead. This was supposed to be the best urban fantasy novel of 20XX (can't remember which year, maybe 2010), but by the time the impossibly sexy European pornstar/zombie killer had most boring sex with the most idiotic and un-sexiest protagonist ever conceived I was done. It reeked way too much of self-insertation from the author's part.
Cross Country by James Patterson. It was actually kind of interesting through the first half... until Det. Cross goes to Africa. After that, the the story just became so contrived that I physically facepalmed. Some will disagree with me on this, but Cross Country is exactly the kind of book that is produced from the commercial fiction mills--written to the biblical standard of scene and structure--filled with drama on every page, most of which is out of place or just seems hamfistedly thrown in simply for the sake of creating drama.
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix. It was just too long and drawn out. I mean, I've read books longer (A Song of Ice and Fire, for example), but I just couldn't finish PHatOotP.
I know others said that they didn't really like / had no reaction to Atlas Shrugged, but I must say, I really enjoyed it. I liked reading about the philosophies and all that jazz- the plot does cease in several parts to give way to Rand's ideologies, but I personally found it interesting. Generally, I have a decent amount of patience for books: however, there have been some I haven't been able to finish (or start really): Twilight and any fantasy book with stupidly long names for the characters that I cannot remember. I really cannot tell Digbfnofgbfoigbfgbofbgofbgrofgbogbrgonrgorfbnd apart from Zsndfiosubfgdifdfjkgsbdfgibdfgobdnfobdfojdfofofofdo (in other terms: word vomit splashed mercilessly across the page)- please and thank you. I would love, for once, to read a fantasy series (LOTR style setting) where they have memorable names of a sensible length. Is the Tommyknockers awful (I haven't read it)? Because, I must say, I adore Stephen King, especially the Dark Tower Series (guilty pleasure reading- my English teacher used to look at me with scorn whenever I brought his work into the classroom. Turns out the teacher was also a King addict and had a whole shelf devoted to King in his office.).
I think you've put your finger (or whole hand) on why I could NEVER get into Milton, despite being an English lit major at University and all. I did so many contortions and funny dances to avoid taking an entire course on him. I had at one point considered trying for a Masters at the University of Minnesota, but was put off by the Milton requirements for the degree. I think you have got to have some modicum of religious belief (Christianity, preferably) to be the slightest bit interested in the issues Milton deals with. If you're not religious at all, and never have been, this stuff seems just a waste of space, no matter how well-written it may be. Wrestling with the nature of God, Satan and mankind's role in the Plan just doesn't mean anything to somebody who doesn't believe any of that is true. The Garden before the Fall? Oh dear. It was full of dinosaurs... I think people need to realise that just because he wrote a lot and was pretty good at it, that Milton really doesn't represent non-Christian issues. He went against the dogma of his day, and certainly explored the issues and got punished for doing so. That's an interesting aspect of Milton's life, and an insight into the historical outlook of his time. But beyond that? Not sure his actual work is as universal as, say, Chaucer, Shakespeare, Swift and others who tend to get lumped in with him as the Greatest Authors of English Literature Before The Victorians Took Over.
You raise valid points, and I think you're right. However, I think Milton is classified among the other greats not for the universality of his writing, but (1) his skill and (2) his importance to the period. Did he change the way people view Christianity, not necessarily, but he offered classical-esque epic about something very relevant to the people, and examined the ethereal in a way that people were not getting from the Church. You're right to say non-religious people may have little to know interest in it. For religious people, however (i.e. those who made up most of the population at the time), this kind of work was tremendous. He went against the Dogma in such a profound way, an in a work that is rich with layered themes--not so much about the world, humanity, and human problems, but the human problem and ideas of nature. So maybe his work is not quite universal, but valuable on the grounds of merit, theme, and importance. I know, you never said his work isn't valuable >_< just not as "open"/accessible/interesting/relevant as others. This is a discussion worth having, imo.
Sorrily, I have not started writing a book yet. But someday, if I decided to write a book, I would look at the end of it before I start. Because it will be unpleasant for me to write the half of a book and then I see it is not reasonable I continue writing.
Oh yeah, I think his work has merit—but not to the extent that it should be required study beyond an excerpt or two. I believe in studying literature as literature, and that the emphasis should be more on the quality of the writing itself AND its universal content—not on its historical importance at a certain place in time. I mean, the Canterbury Tales are historically important for many reasons, not the least of which that they were the one of the first works written in English and printed on an English printing press. But we don't read them for that reason. We read them because the stories in them are universal, humorous looks at how people behave. These stories are universal enough that they were recently adapted for TV, and set in modern times and modern dress. That, to me, is great literature. Milton still gets his own separate courses at University, and sometimes they are required as well (as at U of Minnesota) but I don't personally think his writing deserves that much literary attention. Historical attention, yes. But are you honestly going to say that his plot structure, dialogue and character development is worth a great deal of study? Or even that his themes are universal? They may be, if you're Christian ...but if you're not, they're just ...well ...not.
So far there are two books that I can't be bothered to finish as they don't give me any excitement. The first is Divergant, not interesting enough and little to no action. Finally so far it would be the Hobbit there and back again; sorry to any fans but the films are a lot better. I've also seen minor problems with the work, missing words/punctuation; not sure if that's just the copies I have been given though for my kindle.
Maybe I'm more accepting of it because I enjoy my time with Paradise Lost, the challenge, the themes, the ideas. All the same, I'll have to disagree a bit. There are many ways to look at literature--as you are well aware-- and I don't think any are more valuable than any other. I'm sure an expert on Milton could design a course based on his work just to show that it is universal. It is all a matter of defending the claim. While one should take into account the authors purpose when writing, one mark of good lit. is the valuable and varying takeaways. As to whether his work deserves an entire course, I can't say If one can find a course worth of material to discuss, and students interested in discussing, I don't see why not--and of all things to make required, I find his work more worthy than some. Would I want to take it? My first instinct is no, but hey you never know. I avoided a Shakespeare class because I didn't feel I needed a more in depth look, buuut maybe one of these days I'll sign up. As for the Canterbury Tales, there are plenty of reasons to read them. I can't say exactly why we still read them--well no, primarily it is as you said, but that doesn't change the fact that they are also important, revelatory material about the period. I find it interesting to match my Lit. courses with a bit of history, and then even with a little bit of soiology. It's fun to make those connections ha ha. Then again, that's probably makes me a nerd. On the other hand, I feel you. I have similar sentiments about Joseph Conrad, particularly Heart of Darkness. It was required reading in high school solely for it's historical themes and social commentary... I haven't touched it since because I personally found the language dispassionate and the story a tad less than compelling for my taste. So what can I really say about Literature. I'm the type to form my opinion on a piece, argue it in writing, and just as quickly refute it in a another piece if I think I can make a stronger case and get a better grade.
A piece of literature can be as meaningful and universal as you want it to be. I would actually argue that all literature is universal in the sense that it contains themes that are independent of time and culture. Take the Homeric epics as an example. Even though they were written thousands of years ago, we can still enjoy them today because people back then felt love, rage, jealousy, etc. the same way we do today. Such feelings are common to humanity as a whole. So while Paradise Lost can (should?) be read in historical context, it's at its best when you look at the whole picture (i.e., Christianity, power, marriage, disobedience, etc.) and how humanity fits into that.
