Could you please give more details on what you mean by 'follow' in the first sentence above? I myself see the forum as not so much a matter of choosing who we follow in some sort of sensei/deshi guru/follower fashion, but where each piece of feedback (critique point/answer to a question) can be taken independently, and pretty much independently of other things. While I lack skills and knowledge as an author, if someone suggests something, I can try it, and decide for myself whether it improves the individual piece I'm working on or thinking about, or not. Personally what I've learnt from my short previous time on here, and after coming back a few days ago is that even if someone can't yet write good prose, that doesn't mean that they can't give feedback or advice that I personally find useful. And I haven't yet noticed anything that misleads me in such a way that I can't figure out that something doesn't work with a small amount of experimentation. As an analogy, on another forum I'm asking people to recommend what fish I should put in an empty aquarium. The advice I've received has been variable. But that doesn't cause me any problems, as when someone recommends a fish I can go away and research it. And if I find that it's unsuitable because it grows to two feet long when adult, I can thank them for their advice but mention that it's too big a fish for my tank. I haven't been caused any harm by the poor recommendation, and my general knowledge has improved. I think it's more similar here than the 'follow' comment may suggest. We can receive critiques and advice, and providing we are careful to check/evaluate the advice, we can take on board what works for us, and decide not to adopt that that doesn't.
To me a prologue in a fiction piece is part of the story, not to be skipped. Most prologues I'd skip are those in non-fiction that often give some personal info and reasons the author chose the topic, how the author collected the information, or the limitations of the author's conclusions or point of view. It doesn't take long to get a flavor for a person's expertise and experience in a forum. Most people who cite credentials they don't have are exposed by their posts. And a degree does not automatically create expertise. Asserting you know X is a fact only works until people get to know you better if X is not a fact. I did not think EdFromNY was asserting he knew best, he was saying credentials contribute to trusting a conclusion. As they should. We can't be expert in all fields so we rely on those that are. It wasn't an absolute assertion, of course there are exceptions and of course an argument from authority is a logical fallacy. There's a difference between knowledge imparted from a knowledgeable source and someone saying they are right because they are an expert. I find myself having a different default position than you seem to. I see no reason to doubt a person unless their shortcomings are apparent from their posts.
@Ed: I do agree with you, and it stands to reason it is so in practicalities such as query letters and industry in general, but I don't think it necesserily translates to intuition regarding what is trending. The most valuable quality in a publishable manuscript, apart from good writing is also ability to start a trend, not just follow it. That's why quirky, fresh, different, 'original' (whatever that means) is good, as long as the writing supports it.
Wow, thanks for so much feedback, guys! I think I will simply do what some have said and write the prologue, see how it looks, and chuck it if it's bad. Simple. Effective. Thanks again.
My only warning would be this - campfire storytelling is NOT interesting. Starting with history, unless you're one heck of a writer, is usually boring. It's harder to relate to a reader through history of a world that they don't know and don't already love, much easier to relate through the characters right away. I read the prologue of a self-pub fantasy book once and I put it down at the end of the prologue. Why? It started in much the same way you're saying - it was an idyllic set-up in a garden with children and sweets and fruits, and the children pining to hear a good story from the mysterious and elegant storyteller. The storyteller relates some brief history that happened before the present, which the children are eager to hear more of. And then chapter 1 starts. I didn't skip the prologue - I dislike skipping because I feel like I'd be missing something important. Because of my not skipping, I left the book altogether. This particular prologue bored me to tears - the history was too brief to be understood properly, and I didn't care about the history anyway because well, it's already happened and clearly the current situation is one of paradise, so I already know everything's gonna be happily ever after. I just had no reason to want to know the story - I never even found out who the main character was. So, do what you like, but be aware it's hard to do well. However, maybe this would help you - someone compiled a list of 20 best info-dump pieces in sci-fi where it's actually done well: http://io9.com/5481558/20-great-infodumps-from-science-fiction-novels PS. of course, when it's done well, it's called exposition and no longer info-dump
oh, well, that is not so different from my default position - actually very close: of course none of us come in with malice and deception in mind (actually, maybe not on this forum, but the number of psychopaths on the web is overwhelming!) - I'm just saying: no reason to belive someone's opinion is of a higher rank than somebody else's if it's not apparent in a post.
Wow, that's a bit extreme.. I just said a lot of them wind up being useless information or painfully dull. A bad prologue doesn't necessarily mean the rest of the book will be bad. It's just that they have a reputation for being boring and useless. As I said before not all of them are. Some people skip them and just go on to the rest of the book assuming the prologue won't have any useful information or any entertainment value. They'll know the writer is not up to par if they read chapter one and find it lacking. I'm just saying writing a prologue that's useless or boring or just plain awful is off putting. It's setting the stage for the rest of the book just as chapter one does for a book with no prologue. It's good to make sure it's worthwhile. Also a prologue is different than a chapter one because a prologue is by definition separate from the story itself. Sure thing! I think that's an excellent plan. Best of luck!
I am not sure where you got this. Perhaps it is the newer fantasy genre that has these kinds of prologues (I find fantasy usually really boring anyway so I'm not surprised). But all the prologues I have read have everything to do with a story, they are just distant in time or separately emphasised for suspense or what have you. I think this might be the key, people reading different genres will have vastly different attitudes to prologues.
I've seen it a lot in my personal reading experience and from talking to other readers. You're probably right about genre. A lot of the prologues I've read wind up sounding as dry as a boring history text book. I love history so it's difficult to bore me with it. Some people are just awful at giving a history lesson. I'm not big on fantasy either but I agree it probably has something to do with genre because historical fiction seems to be the biggest offender with this now that I think about it. Sometimes they relate to the story but oftentimes it has nothing to do with the present story and won't make sense until much later in the book. In which case I think it should be woven into the story at a later chapter when it's relevant rather than be presented at the beginning when it doesn't really relate to anything at that time. Sometimes prologues wind up being a case of the writer wanting the reader to have their viewpoint. The reader doesn't need the writer's viewpoint because oftentimes it's not relevant to the plot. To me, it's akin to repeatedly describing a character's eye color in massive detail when it's got nothing to do with what's going on. It winds up bogging down the story. That being said I have read prologues that did their job and helped introduce you to the story at hand properly. Even ones that were background history. The defining difference was that these prologues tied in with what was going to occur in chapter one.
I'm less likely to buy a book with a prologue, because I've seen enough poorly-written ones that I'm leery of them. Also, I have no problems skipping a prologue in a work of fiction, and I know others who do the same. I figure it is up to the author's own preferences as to whether to include a prologue or not, but I don't see much of an upside to it. I've never seen a book where use of a prologue was strictly necessary. I also don't know anyone who will refuse to buy a book because it doesn't have a prologue. So, on par, it seems like a prologue is more likely to hurt you than help you. My main problem with them has been that they're often boring, often contain infodumps that I don't want to read about, and so on. Look at it this way - when you chose a Chapter 1 for your book, presumably you did your best to choose a point where the story starts. Having a prologue means you know darn well your story starts at Chapter 1, but you've decided to subject the reader to all of this other stuff before getting to the story. The above is my general impression with regard to prologue. Others differ - that's apparent from the thread. Also, there are always exceptions, and I've come across some prologues that I thought were very nicely done and captured my attention. Generally they are fairly short and don't digress into a bunch of back story or devolve into infodumps. As for breaking the fourth wall - it can be a nice technique, though I think it entails some risk. You have to have a pretty strong narrative voice to carry it off, in my view. It has to be done well enough to justify the intrusion to the reader, though if you're starting with it then at least you aren't interrupting an ongoing narrative.
An interesting idea. Perhaps don't break the fourth wall entirely. Just let the reader be an unidentified, silent character he's speaking to, or even another character that asks little questions and things. Good luck.
