If evil prevail's.

Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by Wraith68, Jun 28, 2013.

  1. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Agreed. There doesn't have to be should not be confused with there's no such thing.
     
  2. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    Greengrocer's apostrophe. Yes. Love the cartoon.
     
  3. TerraIncognita

    TerraIncognita Aggressively Nice Person Contributor

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    You would essentially need to write two stories. It's not like deleted scenes or an alternate ending in a movie where only slight differences were there. In theory you could do two possible endings without changing the events of the rest of the story but personally I don't think that makes much sense when the outcome is so drastically different. In the choose your own adventure format there are different actions that lead to the different endings.
     
  4. Macaberz

    Macaberz Pay it forward Contributor

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    One of the very stories that I ever dreamed up ended with a completely unimportant, almost random, character killing of the primary antagonist in a sort of accidental way. I am not sure if it would have worked or not, I think that readers would be a bit disillusioned with such an ending, but I also believe it is, to some extent, original.
     
  5. Youssef Salameh

    Youssef Salameh Senior Member

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    It depends on the MORAL of the story; what and where the writer wants to reach.
    Of course, as I believe, the good endings are the victorious ones.
     
  6. maskedhero

    maskedhero Active Member

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    It shouldn't, but it may. Depends on how cynical your readers are...
     
  7. ArnaudB

    ArnaudB Member

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    It depends, I've multiple stories playing more or less with that theme. First one the protagonist is "good" with a twisted love story under a totalitarian regime, the MC "lose" because the opposition is just impossible to overcome at this point and have all the cards. Yet it turns out to be a happy end with the MC marrying... but at the end he realizes that if he accept that marriage with his family ruling that regime, then he too will turn into someone who will do anything to protect his loved ones... and thus will end up supporting the regime against *all* threats.
    So "Evil" as a totalitarian regime win, but it's still a "good" ending for the main characters.

    Another I am working on as a truly Evil character who is monster in modern setting, and who upon learning of it play on the Vampire's lore to make all those who don't like man-eaters around shoot themselves in the foot. Eventually turning public opinion on his side, despite lying to everyone, manipulating people, wrecking and eating them. It can work but I've noted that using horror trick and relying on fascination rather than sympathy work better.

    My conclusion which might be more worthwhile that all my lines above is: Don't focus on writing good or evil character, write INTERESTING characters.

    As for plot it hardly matter because you can make pretty much anything look "Good" or "Evil" depending on the narration.
     
  8. psychotick

    psychotick Contributor Contributor

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    Hi,

    In my view if we were going to look at Stephen King novels with "Bad endings" it wouldn't be The Stand that would stand out. That ending is actually quite good, because the entire book is aimed at that ending. It's even given in the title. The people had to be there to die at the end because they had to basically witness the evil being thwarted. They had to take a stand as it were. So in the end it is actually the right ending. If you want a nasty King ending try "The Fog." Now that's nasty.

    As to the OP, can you have a bad ending with evil winning and have readers accept it? Sometimes. It comes down to the skill of the writer and the characters and the ending. In general most readers want a comfort read. They want to identify with the leading character and think wow - I wish that were me, or something similar. If they've invested emotionally in the MC and you kill him off at the end there had better be a damned good reason for it or they will hate you. If they die there has to be some sort of achievement to come out of it. Think of it as a two way matrix where you can have the MC living or dying versus him winning or losing. If he lives and wins most readers will love that. If he loses but lives to try again so there is hope, many will accept it. If he wins but dies heroically in the act again many readers will accept that. But if he dies and achieves nothing bugger all will accept that.

    Consider the book shipwreck by Charles Logan. It's about a spaceship crash survivor who has to survive on an alien planet while struggling to survive. (Yes I know I've mentioned this one before - it sort of sticks in my craw even thirty years later). Now the entire book is devoted to his attempts to survive until rescue arrives. At the end things get more and more bleak until he dies. End of story. So he achieved nothing and he died. And the lesson here. I liked that book until the end. I got emotionally involved. And if Charles Logan ever wrote another book (he didn't it was a career ending book) I would not read it. I as a reader would not go through that again.

    IMO Yes evil can win but you have to always give your readers something.

    Cheers, Greg.
     
  9. maskedhero

    maskedhero Active Member

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    Best ending in a film I've seen is one my wife still hates, to this day. The Mist.
     
  10. psychotick

    psychotick Contributor Contributor

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    Oops!

    Sorry meant The Mist. And yeah I agree with your wife. Horrible ending. I read it and at the end thought what was the point in reading it?

    Cheers, Greg.
     
  11. Alan Lincoln

    Alan Lincoln Active Member

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    I recently read Mark Lawrence 'Prince of thorns' where the main character is evil. I found it refreshing and satisfying. There are numerous crime novels I could list where the main characters are of a dubious and shady nature with the mind-set that it's better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven. Nothing wrong with(and I often enjoy) a story of darkness/evil gaining the upper hand.
     
  12. Wraith68

    Wraith68 New Member

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    Thank you all for taking the time to answer. I not only got answer's to my question's but a lot of reading recommendation's as well.
     
  13. TerraIncognita

    TerraIncognita Aggressively Nice Person Contributor

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    Glad to help. :)
     
  14. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    That's kind of a fun idea. The reader can pick the ending according to their mood! But the story would have to be quite tongue-in-cheek for that to work, imo. Though just a friendly warning: if you can't tell the diff between a possessive and plural, it's likely that not many people will be able to read through either endings.
     
  15. ArnaudB

    ArnaudB Member

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    If you do that, I would recommend to make one ending (the better one usually) day-dreamed by one of the character, or hinting it, especially if the endings are radically different. One thing I did once: A 'true' ending and a good (better) ending. The good one came after the true one (in the reading sequence) and the MC view of the end was altered by the survival of one character among two who hadn't survived the 'true' ending but did in the good ending.
    Here that was more to really give the feeling that those two characters "Didn't even make it" rather than truly proposing the reader to pick either ending.

    Multiple endings can be done, I'd not recommend to do it for large changes in the stories, more like for small changes at the written-universe level but more important at the level of the main characters.
     
  16. Wraith68

    Wraith68 New Member

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    Yes, so i keep being told, no I was not aware of it before this post but I can assure you I'm working on it now ;)
     
  17. KaTrian

    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Contributor

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    Cool. Good luck with your story :)
     

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