1. Published on Amazon? If you have a book, e-book, or audiobook available on Amazon.com, we'll promote it on WritingForums.org for free. Simply add your book to our Member Publications section. Add your book here or read the full announcement.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Dismiss Notice
  1. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    692

    If you were a dark lord....

    Discussion in 'Entertainment' started by GuardianWynn, Jun 6, 2016.

    .... how would you behave?

    To be clear. I don't need help. I am just been fascinated with this concept recently. To make it a less jumbled topic. Let me refine it. In all of my work, the most dangerous villain I have is actually quite nice, well behaved and patient. He has a armies behind him, but he tends to view them as worthless compared to his gems. His elite inner circle.

    A friend of mine who loved the dark lord character absolutely hated the elites. Saying "If I were the dark lord. I wouldn't have delt with this shit."

    So, that is my curiousity. If you were the dark lord. You had these elites(5 in total) with their pros and cons. Would you, love them? Deal with them while hating them? Killl them? Try to change them? Though, don't feel limited to just these questions. I would love to see how other people relate to them. To be clear too. They are all loyal and would die for you.

    The Scout-
    Pro- Extremely physical capible, can teleport with such godly accuracy that she litterally has teleported in from another planet just to block an attack for you. Extremely useful for her ability to transport you and your elites.

    Con - Lacks capcity to understand social and abstract concepts. Cannot understand the meaning of beauty. She gets flustered by this and tries to anticipate needs to make up for her short coming. Sadly, she guesses wrong a lot.

    Fix - As long as she is clear on what she is doing, she is golden, but this means she requires a lot of attension and patients.

    The Tinkerer-

    Pro- God like level of enchanted weapons. A very keen mind at building. Very determined. She will not give up. She will figure out how to make it work.

    Con- She views herself as your trophy. As such she feels the desire to but shown off. In a sense, she is an attesnion whore and not very physical strong. Her best work is in the shadows but she desires to be in the light. She breaks down and become an emotional mess if she is left in the backline too long

    Fix - She just wants to feel special. So, as long as she gets casual reminders that her efforts in the shadows are appriated, she is fine. The trick is there is no fix because she is clever, any system that attempts to give her attension while keeping her in the shadows is something she will see through.

    The Doctor -

    Pro- Jack of all traits. Able to copy magic, subsutite even for the other elites, just with a B quality. She is an actual doctor too. Nothing is beyond her skill set. She just isn't a master of any of it.

    Con- She is super stressed, very much a black and white person. Someone who wants the world to be simple. She wants the good guy to be clear, and the bad guy to be clear. So who to save and who to kill is simple. She has had mental breakdowns mid mission that have lead to the death of friendliess(Ironic?)

    Fix- In a sense, she has no fix. No way to control her out bursts. It is best to keep her away from missions that are extra delicate.

    The Tactician

    Pro- Master combantant from war to fists. Very magically capible, very level headed. A perfect general and soldier.

    Con- Your longest ally, to the point of apathetic. He values your work and you, but he just cannot hold passion in the work any longer. Often allowing missions to barely succeed out of boredom.

    Fix- He is best used as a babysitter to the elites. For while he might not try hard. He won't allow missions to fail. So given his only mission is to keep them alive. It works. Though, any time he finds an opponent that catches his interest, Watch out.

    The Seer

    Pro- Future Visision, acceptance of her shadow-like role.

    Con- I would say, she doesn't actually have a personality defect. She is fancinated with you because of how amazing you are. She wants to see you reach the stars. Oh, wait. That might count. See, given the nature of her powers. Her powers have defects. One such defect is it is sometimes required for her to lie to you about her visions to keep them true. Which is a difficult working dynamic since she can't find out if you want that result to be true. Also none of her visions are 100% gareenteed. Because she values your greatness, there have been moments she lied to help create an outcome she saw as benefictial even though you woud have disagreed.

    The Fix- It is how you use her talents. On of her best talent is finding most of the other elites. The Scout, Doctor and Tinkerer were all found by The Seer.


    That is it. I hope you enjoyed my huge rant. I am curious what you guys think. Thanks again. To be technical. I have 1-2 moew elites to make, but I think these 5 are pretty awesome. I planned to finish the list with
    The Assassin
    The Champion.
    Any suggestions on other roles the inner circle might need?
     
  2. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll Who wants waffles...? Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,388
    Likes Received:
    2,770
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    Well now...

    The Tank: Pro- Heavy weapons and armor. Ability Berserker. Pack mule. Con-Not too bright. Clumsy at times (hide the fine china). Reckless. Fix- how do you fix a wrecking ball?

    The Thief: Pro- Tactile and agile. Ability Chameleon (blend in with the locals). Street wise as well as refined depending on the mark. Silver tongued, and deceptive. Con-Deceptive and hard to tell if they are truthful or not. They steal stuff (keep an inventory). Possibility of getting caught red handed and jailed, so consider expendable in case of arrest. Fix- While being very intelligent and graceful in the many forms of thievery, one must keep a sharp eye on them. (Alternatively you could just tack all this onto an Assassin).

    I would add a cook, but that would be stretching things rather thin, and since the Doc is a Jack of all Trades master of none, we will just dump this on them too.


    And honestly when it comes down to what to do with the lot. Joker them like in Dark Knight, pick em off one by one once the job is done. Or use their talents until no longer needed then execute them as a group. Why keep around a bunch of people that are hated, honestly.

    Question: Why hire a band of specialists if you hate them? Seems a bit round about in the logic of baddies does it not?
     
    GuardianWynn likes this.
  3. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    692
    Oh I think you misundestand.

    My friend hated them.

    My actually dark lord loves them. Like, he could lose a million soldiers in a battle and not care. But if he were to lose one of these elites he would likely grieve and build them a grave.

    But the question wasn't meant to be how I should handle them. But how you would handle them. Would you like them? Is there cons too much for there pros?

    My dark lord views them as invaluable. Stating that there pros more than make up for their cons.

    But my friend disagrees. So i was curious how others felt. Or how others would treat them. Would some be worth the effot to you, but not others?

    I sort of saw the champion as a tank.
     
    Cave Troll likes this.
  4. Mumble Bee

    Mumble Bee In my defense, words are my weapons. Contributor

    Joined:
    May 18, 2015
    Messages:
    942
    Likes Received:
    1,533
    Juggling all these personalities could make for a good read.

    If you're asking how i'd behave though, I'd quit.
    Working with any one of these people sounds like a nightmare.
     
    GuardianWynn likes this.
  5. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll Who wants waffles...? Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,388
    Likes Received:
    2,770
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    Okie dokie. Then lets disregard that final little tid bit shall we. I was a tad confused.

    They all seem fairly evenly balanced out as far as what you have in the lot. At least none of them is OP to the point of being god like or anything, so the attributes and spread among them works well. Tell your friend he don't get it.

    Overall I can't say that I would like them solely based on attribute alone. It would be better to get to know them as characters in the story, and not simplistic players in an RP stat cards. They could be a horde (of whatever), but until you get to know the characters how can you make an informed decision one way or another on liking them. I would suppose they are a good functional squad for what they are, but I don't know them. Ya feel me? O_O
     
    GuardianWynn likes this.
  6. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    692
    :D That is sort of the point.

    Perfect soldiers are boring! I really enjoy the idea of "the best soldier having some personality defect."

    So, in a story context, yes. The dark lord is patient, calculating and intelligent and bends all of them to his will flawlessly(Or near flawlessly lol). That is what makes him so deadly. In a sense, them being so broken makes him all the more impressive. Right? lol
     
  7. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    692
    That is true, but I can't excatly inform dump them five characters in that kind of detail in a thread. It would be seriously way to long to expect anyone to read it!

    Though, not to advertise. Mainly just because you brought it up. I have two of their origin stories on here. The Scout and The Tinkerer.
     
    Cave Troll likes this.
  8. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll Who wants waffles...? Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2015
    Messages:
    4,388
    Likes Received:
    2,770
    Location:
    Where cushions are comfy, and straps hold firm.
    No harm in a little shameless pulgging. :supergrin:
     
  9. Mumble Bee

    Mumble Bee In my defense, words are my weapons. Contributor

    Joined:
    May 18, 2015
    Messages:
    942
    Likes Received:
    1,533
    Sounds like all your characters have adequate flaws... except for the Dark Lord
    Maybe his flaw is that he needs broken people to control?
     
    GuardianWynn likes this.
  10. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    692
    Actually yeah.
    The Scout can Teleport.
    The Tinkerer can Enchant
    The Doctor can Soul Mold
    The Stratigist is a Psychic
    And well The Seer is .... a seer.

    All of these are powers he doesn't have and well, can't have. Magic potential is fixed(except for soul molding.) So, he can't learn or do any of those art.s You deal with broken people for a reason.

    The Dark Lord is an elemental manipulator. Meaning he can manipulate matter to his will. Which is pretty practical in a fighting/building sense. I think.

    Also, I would say that the dark lord is well a dark lord. I suppose I am labeling the idealism of being evil as a character flaw. His goals don't require evilness. He just views most people as trash. Stepping on trash to reach his target sooner sounds reasonable to him. Not sure if you would count that s a weakness.
     
  11. Boger

    Boger Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2014
    Messages:
    445
    Likes Received:
    122
    Location:
    The Dome of the Slate
    If a Dark Lord ever needed one, this would make a decent Dark Lord theme song. And in a way, it is.

     
  12. Link the Writer

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    11,595
    Likes Received:
    4,470
    Location:
    Alabama, USA
    If I were a Dark Lord, and there was a prophecy that I'd be destroyed by a certain individual, then I'd make sure to steer clear of that individual and not do anything to incur his/her wrath. :D
     
    GuardianWynn likes this.
  13. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    692
    I find this funny because my dark lord is an underdog. As in her is litterally seeking to destroy someone stronger than himself. A god. Actually, 3 gods. yep, his goal is to take on three gods!
     
  14. Sack-a-Doo!

    Sack-a-Doo! Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,400
    Likes Received:
    1,599
    Location:
    [unspecified]
    Not so much a suggestion as answering your post title question...

    I'd hang out with one of the grooms. And here's why:

    Keep your friends close, your enemies closer. By this logic, everyone in the inner circle is an enemy. And I have no desire to hang out with enemies. I'd have friends to keep an eye on them while I hung out in the stables and talked to horses with my best friend, the groom, by my side.
     
  15. CrusherBrooks

    CrusherBrooks Member Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    69
    Hi GuardianWynn! Here's my counter rant, hope you like it.

    I recall something called "Peter's overlord list" or "100 things to do if I ever became an evil overlord". It's old and the last time I looked for it I had to find it in archived pages. It's not about some elite inner circle, though it does contain thoughts about this concept. Personally I think anyone with a large but largely unchecked following needs an inner circle, even if only for the purpose of ensuring a strong chain of command. Would a dark lord love them? Depends on the dark lord. If I'd write a dark lord I would write it from his perspective making the reader feel like he was the good guy until some sort of life recap at the end of the story. Probably.

    I know that historically there are no dark lords, just people that lost. Let's look at the Nazi regime and early USA. You've probably heard of "The final solution to the Jewish problem", which was Hitler's ethnic genocide program. Ever heard of "The final solution to the Indian problem"? Probably not. Why not? Because the victorious live to write the history books while the conquered get demonized or forgotten, whether they were actually the bad guys or not. In the case of WW2 I think it's pretty clear who the bad guy was and I'm mentioning him because he's one of the closest things to a dark lord in recent history (I think), but I can't help but think that if he had won, we would all be sitting around propaganda'd into believing he was the great unifier of the world and ethnic cleanser.

    But I'm a bit off topic with answering the question but it does establish some character ideas. Did the dark lords of our world trust and/or love their inner circles? I think in ancient history the rulers often ruled in a familiar setting (as I think also Gaddafi did) and oppressors also often rule in a divided society with their own tribe being on top while suppressing the others (think Iraq under Hussein). Perhaps by considering that "blood is thicker than water", this family and tribe vs rest may be the safest way to go. You have yourself, then your inner circle (family), happy and supportive tribe and then everyone else who is expendable. Depending on whether or not you consider those elites your family, if you can trust and control them, you'd probably love them if you're a dark lord. Personally I don't think I'd take these elites as my gems, with the possible exception of the tactician. A ruler and commander needs to think about the big picture, strategy over the tactics, progress and resource allocation, not the micromanagement that would come from directing a group of 5 to 7 people. I would give them all their own tasks, perhaps educating the next wave after wave of tinkerers, scouts or seers. Or the seer would be my talent scout. I think the best of the best need to be raising the new best of the best or their talents are wasted. The doctor might be the best one in the field (because he's flexible) and I might kill the seer.
     
    Oscar Leigh and GuardianWynn like this.
  16. halisme

    halisme Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    823
    "Alright Miss Tinker, I'd like you to make the most powerful bombs you can for me. Miss Scout, when she is done, take the bombs and teleport them to the locations Miss Seer marked on that map." And suddenly every threat to the dark lord was eliminated over a long weekend. At which point each person got to go home, and the lord himself ruled for all time. (S)he would visit the seer one a week to update the map, and only call Miss Tinker and Miss Scout in when needed. Because of this the lord never grew tired of them.
     
    Oscar Leigh likes this.
  17. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    692
    Must confess I don't have as nice of a response or as detailed of one.

    So, you would kill one! Also, in a sense they can't teach their skils. Even the doctor can't be as good as them. The Scout for example is like a savant. Also, I kind of realize with her mental handicap, she may not be the best scout. I see her more like a body guard actually, but I realize her stats make her a perfect scout. Funny enough, you can't kill the scout. Like, litterally, she is way to fast, alert and agile. Teleport running away! lol.

    As for them being to troublesome. I suppose that is fair though, I think the concept is that as a unit they as frightning. There only weakness as a unit is that they are of several pieces. I asked a few friends. They all agree that these warriors as a unit are just invincible! To the point my friends have called shame on me for making such a high challenge. The only probably way he sees for them to lose is if they are divided.

    Does that make sense?

    LOL, this is valid, but well, one issue. His enemies he is scared of are like gods. Gods are kind of bomb proof. lol
     
  18. CrusherBrooks

    CrusherBrooks Member Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    69
    TL:DR: They're not worth the dark lord's time.

    Let me just play the devil's advocate here because I LOVE doing so.

    Well you can kill the scout in her sleep, assuming she sleeps. Or poison her. Or keep her tied up with charming companionship and decadence. The dark lord could lose a million soldiers in battle and not care, that tells me that his civilization is so vast that a handful of minions couldn't honestly make a difference. If they can... Well... I could continue with that premise but I'd find it increasingly lacking in credibility not to mention that my personal tastes dislike that type of thing but that's a personal thing haha. So these specific abilities are natural to these people and cannot be transferred in any way. That sounds a lot like prophecies and chosen ones, which is also against my liking but again that's MY opinion and I don't expect you to share it :). So I've made that clear and now go into the logistics and what I know about management techniques.

    So assume that your dark lord (the MC?) spends half his time directing his society and the other half managing his hero squad. Dark lords are generally absolute rulers right? So he'll essentially make every major decision himself, meet with all the experts, get informed about the state of affairs, take advice and choke poor sods who bring him bad news, though I assume the last task can be outsourced. You'll have to trade off which of his activities are justified to allocate his personal resources on. If he can sustain millions in vast armies then I don't think his time is well spent on a few talented puppets. Also he rules over multiple planets? I think he's got his hands more than full just managing his empire. It just doesn't sound reasonable from my perspective.

    Now for the logistics. Assuming his Scout and Champion can't be told to solo the armies of the enemy assuming they have armies and that the tasks to be performed are not exclusively possible by your talented few, I'd say having them together is a disadvantage. You may have crushing victories in the North but you'd be outmaneuvered from the East, South, West, above and below, especially if your champions are somehow pinned down. Separate them and you may lose one but significantly boost the effectiveness of your other flanks since these don't have such special abilities at all.

    My conclusion if I were a dark lord; these people are not worth my time. Give them a high ranking and a meaningful, steady job out of harm's way and achieve victory through conventional means. OR give the Tactician free range over this squad of elites, but nobody else is qualified to direct my empire while many others are more qualified than myself to lead a squad into military victory.
     
    GuardianWynn likes this.
  19. halisme

    halisme Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    823
    Fine, bigger bombs. Uber nukes. Or whatever is used in your universe.
     
  20. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    692
    This is eaiser to reply to in-depth. First, yes, the Scout can die. lol. But those are so... friend betrayal-ish. I mean, the point is imagine if you weren't a friend. Yes she sleeps, but how do you find a person that can planet hop? How do you get close enough to poison her if you aren't backstabbing her? lol.

    Also thanks in my reply you made me realize something. Because you are right. In a sense. For this, I think it would be useful to make an anology. The elites are like a knife, and the empire is like a house. Obviously the house has more value, especially if your goal is security.

    But that is the thing, which has more value is based on the goal. he doesn't care about an empire. I mean, he has one, as mentioned a mutliple planet one. And it means nothing to him. He would burn every single planet to ash if it advanced his goal. As far as he is concerned. He can rebuild, or he doesn't need to. Since rebuilding would only be regaining fodder for well burning. lol.

    So yeah, millions of deaths wouldn't bther him not because the loss is small but because his empire is meaningless. I think he might not be bothered to control it. His goal is only its resources on demand, beyond that it has no value to him.

    When you add that contest, the best of the best have a lot more value. If you are oing to burn your own house down, might as well grab the handful of best items. Right?

    Oh and magic is fixed but not rare. The dark lord himself is actually limited in magic because magic is fixed. His best aren't the best because of the rarity of there magic though. They are the best because they are well, just gifted? Take the Scout, yes, he would have a squad of teelporters. None would match her, because her mental condition(savant) just comboes so perfectly, in a sense she is a eleporting mozart! lol Does that make sense?

    That is why she is his elite. Because shenoutshines the entire squad combined. But yeah since magic is fixed, the dark lord can't learn to teleport. But teleporting isn't exactly rare as there is a squard of it. Shit he could have a planet of them. lol.

    What do you hink of that?

    Oh and I can't help but mentioned. I have a short story on here with the dark lord meeting the scout. Shit got to go

    Edit to add. Sorry about that. Bus was coming. Hope it is not shameful to menttion I got a sample of this on here. lol. Aso ps Sorry for typoes, typing on phone.
     
  21. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    692
    No such thing is a god killing bomb. I mean, heck, in one scene, a god was touching a nuke when it went off, only thing he lost was his wardrobe. Like, he didn't evn loss a hair. Beyond that he was annoyed.

    I mean, did you expect god killing bombs?
     
  22. halisme

    halisme Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    823
    Like I said, whatever weapon does kill them then.
     
  23. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Messages:
    2,111
    Likes Received:
    692
    Now I wonder if you would dislike it but there is nothing. Not to say they are immortal bit no magic bullet. Just got upscale the damage. Generally only another being at a similar level.
     
  24. halisme

    halisme Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2015
    Messages:
    1,313
    Likes Received:
    823
    Then the only reason to fight them is to spite them, or attempt to gain equal power, therefore all you need are the seer and the scout to find out and get whatever you need.
     
    GuardianWynn likes this.
  25. CrusherBrooks

    CrusherBrooks Member Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2016
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    69
    TL: DR: plot seems reasonable if: 1 there is a reason he built the empire. 2 there is a reason he stopped caring about the empire. 3 there is justification as to why a hero squad is the best method to achieve his goals.

    Well if he really doesn't care about his empire then yes, he would let it decay freely or leave it under management of some other lucky schmuck. But I think then reasoning is in order as to why he doesn't care if it gets destroyed because there must have been a reason for him to build the empire and to need the resources on demand and there should also be a reason as to why he stopped caring.
    I do agree yes, in a do-or-die suicide mission the best of the best would make an infiltrating SEAL team... Supported by a far larger group knocking on the front door. But yeah I guess that makes sense as long as the justification is internally consistent. It also depends on the tasks at hand. You can lead your heroes to retrieve an artifact or assassinate a king, but to build the death star they won't be very useful and you also need a different approach to occupy a city.

    It would help to know what your dark lord is up against... What do these gods do? How do they resist his actions? Do they have their own empires which could threaten the dark lord himself? After all you made an analogy to his empire being a house. He might burn it down if he thinks he doesn't need it but then how does he protect himself from a Viking swinging an axe?

    Out of curiosity, this is how I understood it; a squad of teleporters cannot benefit from being taught by the Scout. Because that's what I was proposing in my first post, I'd put them in educational positions such that they get better. They may not ever be as good as her but my brain would never accept the idea that a thousand Scout or Tinker apprentices would still lose to the original one. That just won't go for me, but again that's my personal opinion and if the writer says it's so then that's final. And saying so would in fact validate the idea of a small squad being better than anything else. Anything I can think of anyway.

    But back to your original question. If somehow they are the only ones that can achieve his goals then yes, he should cherish them with all his being, control them neurotically and pour all his time and attention into them. For sure.
    EDIT: I hope you don't mind me prodding at your position and reasoning, I'm not trying to antagonize or anything
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2016
    GuardianWynn likes this.

Share This Page