1. Link the Writer
    Online

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    11,218
    Likes Received:
    4,226
    Location:
    Alabama, USA

    I'm torn between a Canadian Republic or a US monarchy for my sci-fi story...

    Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by Link the Writer, Apr 27, 2011.

    Yup, that sci-fi story. :p I'm just doing some world-building here. This isn't the plot itself. (The year is 2945 AD)

    I originally planned for the USA to be a monarchy ruled under Queen Abigail I with Atlanta, Georgia being the capital, but then I started thinking about dear old Canada.

    How awesome would it be if the entire North American continent was a single nation ruled under the Canadian Republic? One might think the Canadians finally invaded the USA, but not so! Some of the Americans, while they were going through the second American Revolution, decided that rather than becoming an independent nation, they join Canada, so a three-sided war sprung up and Canada pretty much goes, "All right, I'll come collect you all."

    The thing is, would the Canadians mind having Atlanta being their new capital? ;)

    So basically, the question is...if the US is a kingdom, then the people of that kingdom can still call themselves Americans, and that's what I see Helen Chert as.

    However, if the entire continent is the Canadian Republic, then Helen's not an American anymore, she's Canadian. I guess it'd depend on how long ago that Canada annexed the United States. If it happened 60 years ago, then there could still be some folks that believe the US shouldn't have joined Canada as a singular country.

    Would the new Canadian Republic have a queen? Not likely, I don't think as its called a republic.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. JMTweedie
    Offline

    JMTweedie Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2011
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    11
    Location:
    London UK
    I think the Canadian rule idea is good.

    Even if they had taken over two to three hundred yeas ago you would find pockets of American resistance. It would be quite plausible for Helen to cosider herself American.
     
  3. Link the Writer
    Online

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    11,218
    Likes Received:
    4,226
    Location:
    Alabama, USA
    I concur, Tweedie. =D I just love the Canadians so this will be perfect.

    The next point is interesting. I didn't really suspect that there would still be pockets of resistance 200/300 years after Canada took over. I suppose its like that in the real world too.

    How would they be "resisting" that's not complete, open rebellion? Ideas?
     
  4. R-e-n-n-a-t
    Offline

    R-e-n-n-a-t Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2010
    Messages:
    265
    Likes Received:
    2
    There are still people (in reality) who believe in Cthulhu and Molloch, so finding 'American' dissidents after a large amount of time should not be an issue.
     
  5. Link the Writer
    Online

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    11,218
    Likes Received:
    4,226
    Location:
    Alabama, USA
    Uh...I don't think the Cthulhu s real, and what is Molloch?

    I would see the Canadian Republic thing as sort of like N. Ireland. Helen and her friends might accept that they are Canadians, but see themselves as Americans first, Canadians second.

    Honestly, it would depend on where her family came from. If her family were originally Americans when Canada came down, then she would likely consider herself American.
     
  6. Tessie
    Offline

    Tessie Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,103
    Likes Received:
    62
    Location:
    Mass
    I think the fact that she was born in the region formerly known as "the United States," no matter how many years after the take over, would make her American and then Canadian second as you've said. Even if the US and Canada were united in one major block to make the Canadian Republic, there would still be regional distinctions, similar to the Welsh, Scots, and Irish in the United Kingdom. Yes, they're all part of the British nation, but I wouldn't necessarily go around calling an Irishman "British," now would I? :D Interesting question though.
     
  7. Link the Writer
    Online

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    11,218
    Likes Received:
    4,226
    Location:
    Alabama, USA
    I think the Irish bloke would be quite cross with you. :D

    But yeah, I can see that. Different reigonal distinctions.

    Y'know, I just thought of Texas. How are they gonna like being under a foreign power? Maybe they should be a seperate nation: "The Republic of Texas"?
     
  8. Tessie
    Offline

    Tessie Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2010
    Messages:
    1,103
    Likes Received:
    62
    Location:
    Mass
    I don't know. Frankly that's opening a can of worms. We've already been through that issue, and I don't know if you want history repeating itself. :p (And considering the fact that they recently wanted to take the control into their own hands with the way the Mexican cartels were invading and crossing the borderline.)

    But they probably would feel the same way the rest of the nation would: discontented but mindful of the fact there is nothing they can really do to alter things.
     
  9. HBAdams
    Offline

    HBAdams Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2011
    Messages:
    41
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Ooo yay, I love sci-fi earth-based worlds! *high five*

    As for the capital being Atlanta, GA... I really don't think this would ever happen if Canada was the one doing the taking-over. I highly doubt any superpower in their right mind would uproot their capital and plop it down in a part of their territory that was just recently claimed. They would want it somewhere solid, established... and wouldn't that also piss your native Canadians off? You didn't see the British moving their capital from London and putting it in the American colonies back in the day.

    Of course, that's not saying ATL couldn't be a strong major city in this new Canada.

    Here's something you could think about, too: What're the chances that in the next 900ish years the US and Canada (and all countries over the world for that matter) will not change at all? less than 300 years ago the US wasn't even established yet. The Soviet Union split into individual countries only about 20ish years ago. Think about all the changes that could happen! All of Europe could decide to unite into one country. Japan could not exist anymore. Australia could invade southeast Asia. The US and Russia could blow each other to bits... hell, think of how many more world wars there could be! I mean, the first World War was less than 100 years ago, and there have already been two. (And those are only the ones that have been named. There have been enormous wars since the beginning of man.)

    What about space travel and settlements? In 900 years are countries claiming land on other planets? Or ENTIRE planets, at that. Has Canada or the US started settling on the moon?
     
  10. Link the Writer
    Online

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    11,218
    Likes Received:
    4,226
    Location:
    Alabama, USA
    Another thing I could do, if I still wished for the United States to be around...maybe it's a commonwealth to Canada?

    You're right, in 900 years, who knows what the world will look like, and now that I think about it, the US being a monarchy wouldn't exactly have "states". Atlanta would still be there, but it would no longer have the tag "Georgia" to it as the state of Georgia wouldn't exist. Just like the states of Alabama, Virginia, Kentucky, Utah, etc wouldn't exist. Alaska would be given to the Canadians and Hawaii would be granted independence.

    "The United States of America"...That name would have to change since there are no more "states". I guess I can still use "America" as in "The American Kingdom".

    OR maybe the American Kingdom isn't as big as the USA as we know it? Maybe the American Kingdom is the size of the original 13 colonies and the rest of the land are independent nations.

    I should probably write all this down. :D
     
  11. goldhawk
    Offline

    goldhawk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    The Great White North
    I can't see Canada accepting any state unless there is an overwhelming majority to do so. Some northern states might apply but I don't think most southern states will.

    And BTW, we're an enlighten monarchy, not a republic.
     
  12. Link the Writer
    Online

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    11,218
    Likes Received:
    4,226
    Location:
    Alabama, USA
    The book is set 900 years from now. So many things can change from now to then. ;) For example, the US is a Constitutional Republic today, but in 2945, it could be a kingdom. :)

    Interestingly enough, if Helen weren't gonna be American, she would be a Scots, living in the Heartland of the Scots (In my story, Scotland annexed Wales and Ireland is no longer part of the old U.K.). So many things to choose from. :D
     
  13. Aeschylus
    Offline

    Aeschylus Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    I lived in Canada for about five years and have a dual Canadian/American citizenship, so I know a bit about the country.

    I think it would definitely be interesting to have a Canadian superpower in North America, it's an interesting idea. Canada has a very small population considering its geographic size--it is the second largest country in the world after Russia but the 36th in population, and one of the smallest population density of anywhere in the world. So it wouldn't be able to conquer the U.S. in a one-on-one battle; even though its military is sophisticated, it doesn't compare to America's in terms of size. The truth is that American-Canadian relations are good enough right now that Canada can rely on the U.S. for protection.

    However, Canada has one of the highest standards of living in the world. If, in the future, the two nations combined (with Canada on top), maybe America would be the majority of the population, with Canada being the elitist group in control. Perhaps in the future, America's economy goes way downhill and the population becomes too large--Canada comes in and saves the day by annexing the U.S. and establishing some sort of regime--maybe not a combination of countries at first but a protectorate system or something. People might be flocking to Canada in the future anyway, to escape overpopulation and find new land in the north, or to gain refuge from an American government that turns bad.

    They probably wouldn't call it Canada though. Maybe it would be some kind of North American Union or Grand Republique du Nord (Great Northern Republic) or something. What kind of government are we talking? Is Canada democratic, considering you call it the Canadian Republic in your post? Or maybe it's a sort of empire--the world's in turmoil and Canada decides to capitalize on its advantages.

    Also keep in mind the cultural influences in Canada. There's still a strong British influence; there wasn't an independent Canada until 1867, and it was tiny at the time--it didn't grow to its full size until 1930! The Queen of England is still considered Canada's monarch and is displayed on Canadian currency. Also, the government in Canada is Parliamentary like that of the UK. And of course it's a bilingual country, with French and English as its two official languages, and several other recognized languages including several Inuit/Eskimo languages. In the province of Québec, French is the primary language spoken, and there's a lot of French influence. In the north there's also some Inuit influence, and generally more native culture than in the U.S. On a separate note, one of Canada's four major political parties is trying to make Québec its own separate country.

    Hmm... I doubt a Canadian-run nation would want Atlanta as its capital--it doesn't make sense to have a capital so far south. The current capital of Canada is Ottawa, which is pretty far south in terms of Canada (near the Great Lakes), and its largest city is Toronto (which is huge by American standards). One of those, or maybe Montréal or Québec City, would be a good candidate for a capital. If the capital is in America it would be a northern city like New York--even Washington, D.C. is a little far south.

    And I don't think Helen would consider herself an American still, unless America is treated as a separate country. America might still be a province or sector or something of Canada, so she could still be "American," but it would be the Canadian government she works for, or whatever you call the new country. Her passport would not say U.S.


    Now here's my idea for what this future North America could look like (just a thought to fuel your imagination, it might not fit in with your story):

    The dominant western superpower is now the Democratic Union of North America (or whatever you choose to call it). It is a fascist empire consisting of Canada, the former United States, Alaska (taken back from Russia), and Greenland (annexed by Canada a while back for logical convenience, cultural ties, and natural resources/land). It is controlled by some sort of Chancellor in a one-party "Parliament." It has an image of Northern supremacy, maybe with some Nordic influence, which looks down on the "southern" regions like the former U.S. and southern "races." French is its language of choice, but it also recognizes English as official and has no choice but to accept Spanish and Chinese, both critical American languages. French culture is glorified as well as the northern culture, which has become distinct from American culture. I said fascist, but it has enough capitalist freedom that the economy doesn't go to hell. It is rather imperialist, treating the U.S. more like a colony than anything else. It has also taken Mexico as a protectorate, and maybe parts of French Africa. Depending on the state of Europe at the time, it either owns actual land in northern/western Europe or just has very strong ties to the regimes in Europe. Russia is also a strong trading partner. It is backed by a figurehead monarchy used to inspire the people (and create a face to look up to in fear). It has also extended further around the Arctic Circle into parts of northern Russia and Europe. This might even call for a capital farther north than Québec City or Ottawa, considering how it would industrialize in the north.

    Just an idea.
     
  14. goldhawk
    Offline

    goldhawk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    The Great White North
    I lived in Canada for all my life and it's not hard to find out things about it. You don't have to live here to find out.

    Most of Canada's population lives within 100 km of the US border. But even in the southern most parts, it's easy to find places that are several kilometres from anyone else. That's right, not a soul but you within an hour's walk. It's one of the nicest things about our country.

    I vote for "The Great White North." :)

    Sorry but the constitution was not finalized until 1982. Canada is a constitutional monarchy.

    I don't think Canadians would want any part of the US and would only allow some of it to join our country if they were forced to. We like things fine, just they way they are.
     
  15. Link the Writer
    Online

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    11,218
    Likes Received:
    4,226
    Location:
    Alabama, USA
    I concur.

    Which is why I am now leaning more onto Canada being what it is and America's a kingdom.

    I know, obviously, that Canada isn't a republic now. But it's a republic in my story.

    Aes here has given me a new idea. Maybe Canada is two seperate countries? One is the Canadian Republic while the other is what Canada is today..
     
  16. Aeschylus
    Offline

    Aeschylus Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2009
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    I understand that it's technically a constitutional monarchy, but it is also classified as a "federal parliament democracy." In practice there is no monarch making key political decisions backed by a parliament--the monarch is a figurehead. And yes, the constitution was finalized in 1982, but it was established as a confederation in 1867, which made it a largely independent state. I was simply trying to stress to Link how late Canada became separated from Britain.

    "I lived in Canada for all my life and it's not hard to find out things about it. You don't have to live here to find out."

    You'd be surprised how many people know nothing about Canada. It's sad, but kind of funny. ;)
     
  17. Killer300
    Offline

    Killer300 Active Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2011
    Messages:
    1,064
    Likes Received:
    37
    There is yet another element to consider which is called Post-Scarcity. What is that? The end of the need for governments and economics to say the least. Read the wiki article on post-scarcity for its full implications. In 900 years, we would defintely have it within that time. Heck, by 2060 we'll probably enter the next singularity, which basically means tech change so massive it's impossible to predict.
     
  18. goldhawk
    Offline

    goldhawk Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    108
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    The Great White North
    You'd be surprise that Canadians know more about the US than most Americans. It's sad and kind of scary.
     
  19. TheGreatNeechi
    Offline

    TheGreatNeechi Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Warminster, PA.
    In the 30th century I don't think the geopolitical world as we know it would be remotely recognizable.

    Just think how much it has changed in just the past 200 years. Now you're throwing it nearly a thousand years into the future.

    Canada and the United States may not even exist, and if they did they would surely be living in a Cinocentric geopolitical landscape. The balance of power would have long shifted to Asia.

    EDIT

    In my world the Western Hemisphere was consolidated into an American Federation (longform: Federation of American States), and the Russians wound up making substantial territorial concessions to the Chinese, whose communist system evolved into an Imperial Oligarchy called the Russo-Chinese Empire (no longform). This all happened in an alternate history halfway through the 21st century prior to the consolidation of the United Commonwealth.

    It is my firm belief as resources become more scarce and the population continues to rise, a global government will become necessary to make the most efficient use of what remains. It will be a very nasty time to be alive, a sort of make-it or break-it situation for humanity. I would suggest rolling your timescale back, because a whole lot can happen in 900 years.

    Understand, your time line goes beyond Star Trek.

    Frank Herbert's Dune is a fantastic example of long-timeline science fiction. Nothing is the same. Earth may or may not even exist. Humans have taken separate evolutionary paths as they evolve to survive on myriad different worlds. Point is, the longer your time line is the more tense the situation on the homeworld will become. Eventually it will snap. That snap will change everything.
     
  20. Link the Writer
    Online

    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2009
    Messages:
    11,218
    Likes Received:
    4,226
    Location:
    Alabama, USA
    I can see what you're saying.

    Maybe it could be set in an alternate version of our world, like the 1940s? That way, I can still keep the 1940s, countries can still be the same, only it's an alternate sci-fi version of it.

    That...may be difficult to convey that it's an alternate 1940s. Difficult, but doable.
     
  21. TheGreatNeechi
    Offline

    TheGreatNeechi Member

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2011
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    6
    Location:
    Warminster, PA.
    Indeed you are, but if the British Republicans have their way it won't just be the United Kingdom which must reconstruct its government... ;)
     

Share This Page