1. ChaseRoberts

    ChaseRoberts Senior Member

    Jun 10, 2009
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    Impartial Input wanted

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by ChaseRoberts, Aug 9, 2009.

    Hi all,

    Sorry I've disappeared for a while. My life has pretty much disintegrated into a sort of disaster that any soap writer would just die to get their hands on. I don't know where else to ask for completely impartial advice on this (how to sort this mess out). I need opinions.

    Three weeks ago, I got myself into a terrible state at a party by drinking too much, something I hadn't done for ages but have just started doing again. I pulled this rather handsome looking (think Dean Winchester from Supernatural) guy, took him back to my place and had my wicked way with him. We exchanged numbers, and told each other we would meet up again the next weekend.

    About ten minutes after he'd left in the morning, there was a knock on my door. I expected it to be him, but it wasn't, it was the host of the party I had been at the night before. He lived with a girlfriend, and seemed happy enough with the situation. I was surprised, but let him in.

    Immediately he started kissing me, and moving me to the bedroom. I was so stunned, I just slept with him. I don't know why, and I suppose I'll never know why, I consented to it, but I did. He said he'd come back, and I was terrified he would, so started to have a 'no answer the door' policy.

    On the Monday (the day after), I took myself off to the doctors for more anti-depressants and the morning after pill, even though, just two months ago, I'd been told it'd be difficult for me to conceive naturally, I figured it was best to err on the side of caution, and then I went to my counsellor to discuss my recent acting out and craziness.

    Things were fine for a couple of weeks, and then I realised my period was late. This is not unusual for me, but because of the health risks associated with the morning after pill, I ran a pregnancy test, just in case.

    It came back positive.

    I ran three more over the course of the weekend, and each one came back positive.

    It was during this time, the second guy (the utter barsteward) found out that I was up the duff. I can't go into details, nor do I want to, but bad things happened when he came round to 'discuss it', and now the police are involved, my flat became a crime scene for days and I've been too scared to stay here by myself, so have been couch surfing round the country.

    I (completely forgetting that my parents aren't like everyone elses) listened to the advice of my friends and told my parents about the epic trouble I'm in. Their response was to drop the police case because I 'clearly led him on' and would 'be destroyed by the red tops if it came to court'. Then they said I needed to get an abortion. No hugs, no support, no sympathy.

    I'm exhuasted from my brain running in circles. Yes, it would be the most sensible option just to have an abortion, on paper at least, but there are reasons why I don't want to (admittedly, some of them are really silly, but still valid).

    1. I was told two months ago it'd be difficult to have children naturally. Here is a child, naturally.
    2. This little ball of cells has so far defeated dodgy ovaries, a misshappen womb, a surge of hormones caused by the morning after pill, and further malevolent hormones which encourage miscarriage. Clearly, it's put a lot of effort in, and it seems ridiculous to kill it after all that hard work.
    3. It is (as far as I'm concerned, regardless of how far along I am) murder.

    The biggest fear I have, however, is that it is HIS. Could I love a child that came from a man who was as horrible as him? Added to this is the problem that the first guy (the lovely one) is friends with the second, so it's clear that now he won't be willing to have anything to do with me or the potential sprog. Apart from a few friends and a sister half way across the country, I'll have no support.
    I'm half way through my uni course. I'm completely broke. I'm single. I'm about a month off becoming homeless. These are all really good reasons not to continue this pregnancy.

    Am I being stupid here by not being able to bring myself to do it? My head is so messed up at the moment. All I really know is I'm damned if I do, and damned if I don't.
  2. Rei

    Rei Contributing Member Contributor

    Aug 2, 2008
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    You've got to do what's right for you. We can't tell you what to do, but I believe that if a person has any moral feelings that tell you abortion is wrong, then she shouldn't. With regards to being in school, being a mother hasn't stopped thousands of other women from finishing school. With regards to being able to aford to raise the child, there are social services that help, or if nothing else, adoption agencies.
  3. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    May 19, 2007
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    Massachusetts, USA
    Jesus, Chase.

    First off, I have no respect for your parents' position. You most certainly did not "lead him on" from what you have said, and the circumstances sound like you were raped. You were intoxicated, putting your reluctant "consent" into question.

    However the police matters go, I extend my support. I won't try to advise you what to do about the pregnancy - that is a very personal decision, and the last thing you need is people pressuring you one way or another. Let friends who know you well, and whom you trust, help you think it through, but don't let anyone pressure you one way or another.

    I wish you the best, however this goes from here.
  4. Mercurial

    Mercurial Contributing Member Contributor

    Jan 16, 2009
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    I'm so sorry to hear what's been going on, Chase.

    Do you have a legal case? As far as I'm concerned, yes, you do. My line of thinking mirrors Cogito's. I would talk to a few different legal counsels... if you have a strong chance of winning the case in their expert opinions (because mine isnt worth anything), it might be worth pursuing. It might get you some financial support for your child, if you decide to keep your baby.

    As for the pregnancy situation, I also will not give my opinion, but a suggestion might be to lay out your heart's morals there on the table, but ultimately listen to your mind. Can you support a child in __ months time? If not, what other options will you look at? Research it. I dont know how it is in Australia, but in America, there are not just three options (abort, adopt, or raise).

    This is my opinion. Can you love a child that came from a nasty man? Yes.

    Good luck, Chase. It seems like a real mess.
  5. bluebell80

    bluebell80 Contributing Member

    May 20, 2009
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    Wow, sounds like you got yourself into one hella jam.

    I understand how you feel about abortion, I couldn't do it either when I became pregnant at 18.

    If you decide to keep it, rather than giving it up for adoption, you will need to get a paternity test done. This can be done while pregnant, though I strongly recommend against Amniocentesis procedures because they have a high rate of miscarriage and stillborns. I would wait until after the birth to find out who the father is.

    As for whether you will be able to love the child, think about it this way, it's still half you. No matter who the father is, the child has half your genetic make up. Will you be able to love it? Yes, of course. I'm a mother, I can attest to this. As soon as you give birth, they plop the baby on your chest right out of you, and all you can do is look at it with so much love your chest feels like it might explode. Everything melts away as you look at the little face, the pain of childbirth, the parentage of the child, the whole room disappears, and all that remains is you and your beautiful child. It's a very special moment.

    Given that you have been told you would have problems conceiving, I can tell you are torn between having this child now, and waiting until you are in a more stable situation (educationally, financially, mentally, and relationship-wise.) Regardless of who the father is, you can figure neither of them are going to be too involved, however they would have to pay you child support (not sure if you have that mandatory in OZ.) But you still should be able to sue the man in civil court for support of his biological offspring.

    The other thing you have to consider is the child's welfare. What kind of quality of life will you be able to offer this child? It sounds like it won't be much given your circumstances. For the child's benefit adoption might be your best option. Giving the child to a family who can afford it, who will love it, and raise it well could be better in the long run for the child's interests. With you, it will be living a life of struggle, especially if you have to quit uni and get a job. A life of daycare, hardly ever seeing you, and barely scraping by... that might not be what you want for your child or you.

    While it would be painful for you to give it up for adoption, you have to weigh your selfish desires against what is best for the child. You may want to keep it, but is that best for the child or for you?

    Before you make any decisions, you should talk to several adoption agencies and your therapist. Ignore your parents if their advice is like acid. And think only of what is best for the child. That is the responsible adult thing to do. Think about how life would be in both situations.

    There are options with adoption too. You don't have to negate all contact with the child, many parents are willing to send pictures, videos, and updates to keep you in contact with the child. Also when the child is older you can get to know them since you never lost contact, but the child would have been raised in a stable loving household that you choose for it. Giving a baby up for adoption is about love, not about trying to rid yourself of a problem. Women do it because they love the child and want to give it the best life it can have.

    As for your self destructive behavior, well learn from your mistakes. Obviously you can't get piss drunk and keep in control of yourself. So don't do it anymore. Don't try to start relationships based on mindless drunken sex. That is no way to start a lasting mature relationship, one that would produce children into a stable loving home.

    Also, just a bit of medical knowledge that I have, anti-depressants aren't good for the fetus. There have been some studies showing that the disruption in chemical uptakes can have an effect on the developing brain tissue of the baby. Just something to think about.

    As far as a case against guy number 2, first of all you should file a restraining order against him. That way if he shows up at your door you can have him arrested. It may not have been rape, because you consented, but it was coerced sex. He came to your door uninvited, forcibly kissed you, and even though you didn't say no, you didn't really want it. You may not be able to get him on rape charges, but you could get him on stalking and harassment, which would make your case for a restraining order stronger. You could also (not sure how it is in Oz but here) sue for mental and emotional damages in civil court. This is usually much easier to do than trying to bring charges of rape in state courts when there was some consent.

    From the sounds of the whole situation, your mental health, and your life standings, adoption is probably your best bet. You don't sound like your are emotionally, financially, or relationship wise ready to be a mother. You have to put the child's well-being ahead of what you want, because that is the mature responsible thing to do. Doing things because you want to is not putting the child's best interest head of your own wants. And that is not what being a parent is about.

    Also, another thing to think about... How are you going to handle being alone (with your current mental health standings) with a baby? Imagine 3 weeks after giving birth, alone in your apartment (if you still have one) no support system, sleepless nights, 3 am rolls around and baby is yet again up screaming bloody murder. You're exhausted. You just want the baby to stop crying. You've changed it, feed it, walked around with it, rocked it in a chair, done everything you can possibly imagine to do, but it just won't stop. Your frustration level builds to the point where you feel frantic. Scary options run through your head, placing a pillow over it's head to make it stop, shaking it...then you stop, put it in the bed and lock yourself in the bathroom out of fear of hurting it. You cry for hours while it screams in the other room for you to take care of it. You just want it to stop, but because you have no support system there is no one to turn to. Thoughts of killing yourself run through your head... Now, I can tell you I've been through this and I did have the children's father in the home. I had moments of breakdown that were scary. I couldn't imagine doing it completely alone. Having a baby is really hard. And you may not be able to handle it alone. That is something you have to think about too. For your safety and the baby's. As much as when we are normal it is hard to think that we could hurt a baby or ourselves, in a moment of sleep deprived, hormone induced frantic states we are capable of so much harm.

    If you just need someone to talk to, feel free to PM me and I'll get on a chat program.

    1 person likes this.
  6. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

    Nov 21, 2006
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    Coquille, Oregon
    chase, PLEASE take every single word of bluebell's post seriously!!!

    no offense intended in re the other members who've weighed in on your dilemma, as they do mean well, i'm sure, but she is giving you good, sound, valid advice, from word one to the end of her post...

    and this 70 year old mom of 6 daughters [and 1 son], grandmom of 17 is also here, only a mouse-click away, for you any time you need a caring ear and shoulder...

    fyi, 2 of my daughters and my youngest sister i helped to raise all had abortions and it was the right/best thing to do in each case...

    love and healing hugs, maia
  7. The Freshmaker

    The Freshmaker <insert obscure pop culture reference> Contributor

    Oct 10, 2006
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    St. Petersburg, FL
    Wow, Chase.

    I can't say that I've been there. I've never been pregnant, and I've never been drunk enough to let my judgment lapse. I'm not really qualified to give advice.

    I can say, though, that I'm sorry about how your parents are acting. They should be supportive of you, no matter what decision you make. I'm sure that whatever you decide to do, you will do it because you feel it's in your best interest, and the best interest of your child.

    Best of luck.
  8. Forkfoot

    Forkfoot Contributing Member Contributor

    Jan 27, 2008
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    San Francisco bay area
    I have no advice; I haven't the brains nor the uterus for such an endeavor. Just wanted to extend my sympathies.
  9. SonnehLee

    SonnehLee Contributing Member Contributor

    May 19, 2008
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    Far away from home
    For once, I agree with Maia.

    I really can't give you any advice, sorry, dear. I will keep you in my thoughts/prayers.
  10. hiddennovelist

    hiddennovelist Contributing Member Contributor

    Feb 25, 2009
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    Fabulous Sin City
    I'm not going to give you advice based on what I would do, because you and I are in very different life situations, and I don't know much about what would be best for you, but I completely agree with what Rei said. Abortion may be the easiest option, but if thinking about getting one makes you that uncomfortable, how are you going to feel after you've had one? Sometimes the best option for right now isn't the best option for the rest of your life. That needs to be taken into consideration.

    I completely agree with everyone who has advised you not to drop your case against guy number two. From what you've told us, you most certainly do have a case, and just letting this get brushed under the rug could mean he goes and does this same thing to someone else because he knows he can get away with it.

    Whatever you decide, I wish you the very best, and my thoughts and prayers will be with you as you try to straighten things out. If you ever need to vent or just talk anything out to clear your head, I'm around on the forum pretty often, so feel free to PM me!
  11. Nervous1st

    Nervous1st Senior Member

    Feb 25, 2009
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    Hi Chase,

    I’m sorry to hear of your predicament.

    Believe it or not, I have been through a similar situation. I fell pregnant at 16 to my boyfriend and I had the same feelings as you about having the baby (I was a lot less mature though, mind you). At the time though, I was still living at home nursing my terminally ill Mother. I felt completely cornered and made the decision to terminate.

    Several years later after I married, my Husband and I tried for our first baby. I lost the foetus at 8 weeks due to an ectopic pregnancy, where the baby, along with my damaged tube was removed surgically. It was funny, here I was years later having another baby removed but the circumstances were very different. I have never regretted the decision to have an abortion because I believe it was the only option for me at the time. In saying that though, I will never forget it and I often wonder if I was somehow punished the second time round.

    Anyway, since then I have had a beautiful baby boy and I’m pregnant for the fourth time and having my second baby. I love being a Mother and it’s the most rewarding job in the world. I have to completely agree with bluebell though, it is the hardest thing I have ever done. Sometimes I don’t know how I got through it.

    I know I’m not being very helpful, in fact all I’ve done is ramble on about myself. I guess what I’m trying to say is, I have been there, I know what it’s like to have an abortion and be totally alone and I know what it’s like to be a Mother. I know what it’s like to not have a place to live, with no money and depressed.

    If there is anything I can do, please don’t hesitate to message me.

    Big hugs xoxoxo
  12. luckyprophet

    luckyprophet Member

    Aug 11, 2009
    Likes Received:
    I'd like to be nearby Jupiterian
    Bluebell gave substancial advice.

    Two things I thought were these: (1) she said *if* your parents don't take it well, don't count on them. Which means that they -- there's hope, I hope -- that they might, maybe, face the upcoming of a child in the situation, think better on the matter, and turn to support you somehow. If not, it's like bluebell said.

    (2) I was in doubt about the legal problem. My first thought was that, *if* you decide to go ahead, and give birth to the baby, it'd be better to leave any sort of fight away. However, the only thing I read others say that I agree is that you should as well think about protecting yourself (from the guys involved). Even before thinking of their getting away with this act with or without any punishment, it ins't as much important as to guarantee that you will feel and be legally safe from any inconveniences during pregnancy, birth and after, until, someday, you wish to come to think about it, whenever, a year from now, ten years from now, fifty years from now.


    It's a tough decision you have to make. So, take as much council as you can from people whom you can count on as professionals and/or people who've experienced similar situations. You aren't alone in this. You only should stop now, breath, look around, and find such people. Begin sending Bluebell pm if there's noone else you can give a phone call, I think she can help you here. Search for legal counselors, and your therapist. (Do give a try to searching your parents once more if they don't know of the baby yet, but, as it was said: be ready for them being sweet or acid and, if they react acidly, just leave them out of it, until you've figured out what to do.)

    Choose those people you trust the better. Don't be naïve from now on, along this time you need to decide what you are going to do. Pm me, if you think I can help you. We could change e-mails, I check it up everyday. I intend to be here everyday in the week (my usual programmed shedule for WF), but on the weekends I'm in other places in the internet, and you can reach me through e-mail.

    (So as you can know who's talking to you) ..

    I'm a broke guy, 33 years old, I don't have the slightest idea of what you're truly going through, but I cannot help saying that you can count on me to talk, and ... well, even so, you need people near you.


    So search and choose people near you, whom will be able to give you the support you need. Be these people law counselors, doctors, or someone/more than one (but few) people you find in a therapy group -- and I think you could consider thinking about beginning to look for groups of people who've been/are going through what you are going through. (For this, ask your therapist, ask doctors about it too, how to find such groups, and think with yourself about yourself, about what kind of group you think you need, you think you'll be more comfortable and safe with.) But, the most important, people from out of the internet, people whom you can see and touch. It's much better to have a friend around than a brother far away. Someone near can help you. We, each one of us need people near us.

    And remember, protect yourself, avoid the guys, even if you need to ask legal help for this, not because of them, but because of you, of your mental and healthy safety.

    I don't want to talk much more. I spoke a lot of things.

    Remember to write Bluebell, if there's noone you can give a call, to start.

    Do these things after breathing a while. (And, if you cry, pay attention at it. If you feel bitter, don't be alone too long: call someone. Therapist, doctor, legal couselor, ask them for groups of people who are in your situation. Search for them, because you aren't alone.)


    Written words are harsh.
    Tough to read.

    You've been brave to tell here what you've been through. THANK YOU for your faithfulness towards this group.

    Lets think together, and you will find out exactly what to do.

    As long as you begin taking these steps, you will begin realizing that there are other people who are going through tough situations not so much different from yours. It isn't, will never be exactly the same situation, but these people will comfort you by the mere fact that they exist, they are around, near, and that they understand you. Also, you can be of help to them, simply because you exist, you are near them, they can call you if they are sad, and you will understand them. So, there are a few people you still don't know, who care very much for your existence. Keep this in mind, and you will find them, if this is the case.

    Count on me, but don't feel it's solved with internet help: you need people near you. You will have to move this way, until you find those who understand you, and who also need you as you need them.

    If you go ahead, things are going to be well.

    I wish you the best.
    I'm here.
    Send pm, if you need.

    ... It may be a little silly but, ... write, you know? When I'm in trouble, I write a lot! Lots of weepings on papers ...

    Strength comes from unimaginable places of within the human being, when we go through these situations. And odd miracles also happen. I never thought I'd be allowed to have a cat, at my father's home, because, until a week ago, they abhored cats! All of sudden, they decided, and told me: "we're adopting a cat!" I looked at them, and thought with myself "eh?!" ...

    I'm not sure I'm ready to have a cat. It's coming in a time I never expected, and we're all broke at home. But ... Well.

    A cat is A LOT different from a baby, so, read Bluebell's advices again, and then make your first move. As soon as you're ready.

    And you will be fine :)

    From a guy who knew you today,
    but who cares,

  13. tcol4417

    tcol4417 Member

    Jul 27, 2009
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    Sydney, AU
    We are not what we came from, but what we become.

    Precisely what I thought.

    Don't give up on your case with the police - assault is assault - but winning the case isn't the important issue here.

    I'd rather keep this under wraps, but if you're willing to open up then I don't see why I shouldn't.

    I'm adopted and the idea of the value a human life has come up a couple of times. It's not an easy issue to deal with, one that other people will hound you with their own opinions on but ultimately you have to make a decision that sits well with you and no-one else should come into the equation.

    I've chosen to believe that a life is a life, regardless of where it comes from. The father is a colossal asshat, but that alone is not a reason to terminate the child: We are not what we came from, but what we become. Genetics have nothing to do with it.

    I'm not on the religious boat of "abortion is a sin" and while I do think certain foolish irresponsibles should take responsibility for their mistakes, to bring an unwanted and potentially unloved child into the world should not be necessary to do this.

    Your financial situation would make childcare a lighter shade of impossible, but if you're willing to swallow your pride, there are several charity organisations that exist to help people get back onto their feet.

    Ultimately I think that it's the child that should be the central factor of your decision: A child born into a loveless family doesn't bear contemplation.

    This was supposed to be so short, and yet...

    If you believe in the child, if you believe in yourself and if you have the determination to pull through truly difficult times, then fight with everything you have to give your child a future.

    Best of luck to you

    - Thomas [possibly the sappiest thing I will ever admit to writing this year]

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