Reading the few first pages of this thread seemed like another fantasy-bashing thread. anyway..... While reading this thread, a simple question comes to mind - which has been brought up before - why does this seem only to apply to fantasy? I've certainly read my fair share of garbage, whether it be fantasy or not. Some of it wasn't even a book at all, some brochures or letters are truly amazing, and mostly not in a good way. Hell, some of the garbage I have read I have written myself. Also, I find that a lot of 'new' writers in fantasy seem only to write for themselves. I certainly consider myself in that category, and I certainly do not hold myself to such a high standard as I would if I was expecting to public my works. That said I am trying to improve my skills, whatever they may be. Out of curiosity, has anybody here done or heard of someone that has done that?
I'm assuming you directed this post at me. Who's fantasy bashing? Am I fantasy bashing? I was laughing at the OP and his tone. And, did I say there's anything wrong with young people preferring fantasy? A better question is, why did you get defensive from someone making a simple observation? I was just speculating what motivates that demographic to prefer one category over another. As an observer of human nature, these are the kinds of things that come up from time to time. Conjecturing at markets and who is the target audience, etc. If I point out that it's the middle aged women who buy the vast majority of romance fiction, should they get mad at that observation too?
Actually, Tea@3, I wasn't specifically saying it to you, and I frankly can't be stuffed reading back through five pages of stuff to see who wrote what. I was surprised at some of the others who [and I may be reading this wrong] weren't just observing 'well, kids love writing fantasy, and some of it is trash' but seemed disgusted with the whole genre, or who took glee in laughing at the luckless ones who had their stuff quoted in the thread. Just felt sorry for them, however bad their ideas may appear I hate when people having a go at being creative get knocked back because they unwisely share something. I'm too empathetic, perhaps, but I don't think I was actually defensive- just managed to come across that way
I'm doing pretty hardcore crime at the moment but I've quite a broad idea for fantasy series I'd love to do after. In fact if I can manage I'd love to at least write a book in every genre or that can be considered a mix of genres or genre busting. Ya know? I can't just stick to one.
Yes it did seem harsh of the OP to single out peoples plots, just to bash them. Calling their ideas HORRIBLE (Which he wrote in capitals for emphasis) wasn't very constructive. Some of those ideas could maybe have been made into decent novels if handled skillfully enough. (Though the werewolf writer needed a major rethink on his pseudo-science) None of the selected writers were good at synopsis writing, (A skill many aspiring writers struggle at.) but that doesn't mean their ideas were without potential. There's plenty of people will tell you the skill is in the execution rather than the ideas. The OP doesn't like weird ass places and weird ass situations, which rules out plenty of decent speculative fiction. As far as I can tell he was mostly berating people for not writing according to his personal tastes. The guy has long gone, so it's largely irrelevant, but I don't know why this thread gets necroed.
I guess the reason why threads like this live so long is that these sorts of concerns are still alive. Fantasy is one of the most popular genres, and also one of the most approachable for inexperienced writers. You don't need to know a lot of technical details, like you need to know to write a good detective novel, since one of the primary features of fantasy is that you create the details yourself. That makes Fantasy easier to write, or at least easier to attempt to write. Anything, I think it comes down to this: a story is either set in the real world, or a fictional one. If it's fictional, then it's either science fiction or fantasy, and writing science fiction requires technical knowledge. So, a lot of stuff ends up under the fantasy umbrella. It's a very broad genre, but that doesn't mean there isn't room for originality. A lot of new writers emulate things that have already been done, but that's fine. They will grow as writers and improve. Emulating others is essential to learning.
I find writing in the real world to be in some ways easier than SF/F in some ways. All of the information is there - you don't have to invent the world, its details, and the internal consistencies that you need to make the story work. A good SF/F story requires the same attention to plot, character, &c. as any story set in the real world, with the added work of having to construct a believable world around it all.
I think it's just different kinds of work, not so much more or less work. SF/F requires more raw creativity, I'd say - the author is more or less starting from scratch. More realistic fiction requires more research/knowledge, since you can't just make up whatever suits your story. Someone who's highly imaginative but maybe low on knowledge or research skills/interest might find SF/F easier to write; someone who's had lots of experiences and gathered lots of knowledge might find realistic fiction easier to write. Which maybe explains why so many young writers seem to be drawn to SF/F - it's playing to their current strengths.
I disagree. A lot of SF/F is simply a reshash of other SF/F. It makes sense. Someone reads a lot of fantasy, and then they "imagine" their own story, but they're subconsciously (or not) doing so within the confines of the genre that has been established in their minds based on the books they've already read. Case in point, Lord of The Rings is famous for its races, in particular the description of the number of rings being given to each specific race. Is it any wonder here that so many members on this forum discuss developing their own races? Deciding that you don't want to include dwarves in your fantasy world, but instead want to include a race that's approximately seven inches taller than a Tolkien dwarf, with blue skin, and a beard that comes out the ass, is hardly what I call being creative. That's not raw imagination, it's just imitation. If fantasy writers really started from scratch, we wouldn't have so many low tech, medieval, multi race stories with chosen ones.
That's all true @123456789, but the fantasy writers don't do anybody? Or rather, done nobody any harm. Peace sister. This here, our forum, their forum is a good and friendly place for wizards, elves, penguins - for chat between, to, among, on top of each one another. Granted, there should also be suitable venue for our fantasy red bridges, the Japanese forest, steep white cliffs above Eastbourne, even a running leap, sometimes I consider ashes tossed by a sympathetic live wife, at least a re-assurance. We can only dream. Sad Mat
Well, I think we should draw the line at penguins. Wizards and elves are fine, but penguins are trouble. I don't think we should welcome them here. Just my two cents.
He's a bloody troublemaker, that's what. Brings nothing but grief. I wouldn't have him in any of my novels.
Not to be confused with puffins. I know the most delightful gay puffin couple that lives down the street. Best barbecues in the neighborhood. Also, the landscaping in their front yard is immaculate.
I worry about puffins. I don't know any well enough to judge, and your opinion means a lot, so... I'm not going to speak out against them, yet. But I'm watching them. I'm watching them very, very closely. And don't get me started on auks.
I was simply saying fantasy doesn't require more imagination than other genres do. I also think it requires less, but that's not a road I'm prepared to go down yet again O_O
Thinking about the Fantasy I've read in this last year, I can't think of a single elf. There was a sort-of-wizard in one of them, I think... but mostly some powder mages, a druid, a Gentleman Bastard, a couple magicians, a drug-addicted poltergeist hunter, some very political goblins, a master swordsman... no elves. No dwarves. And, thank god, no flightless waterfowl.
I feel a need now to write a story about a plucky little puffin named Greg who falls for a sexy auk named Horatio. Horatio is a suave number and cheats on Greg with a chinstrapped penguin named Chad. Chad is the eternal frat-guin who refuses to grow up, lives to crush beers and party, so Horatio eventually dumps that little side action and decides to commit to Greg just as Greg gets the 411 on the situation. What does Greg do? Find out on the next episode of Nights in Antarctica.
Not to derail from all the penguins buuuut.... I think this is probably the important thing to remember when talking about fantasy or any genre-snobbed type of writing. If you have good ideas, interesting characters, an exciting world then you can make a great book regardless of the genre. I absolutely hate fantasy and wouldn't write it if you beat me with a hose but that doesn't make it a bad genre, just not my cup of tea. I could rattle off a bunch of reasons why fantasy is bad but then those criticisms of re-used characters and re-hashed settings are just as true of romance or crime or anything else. I think fantasy can make those flaws more obvious (Oh another bunch of elves who are haughty and arrogant) but it's still the same flaws. If I had to guess I'd suggest that a lot of fantasy writers get into writing fantasty not because they've come up with some great idea but because they are fans of existing works writing for other fans of those works so no-one wants to rock the boat about elves or magic or whatever and of course developing a genuinely different setting is a huge amount of work. Again, that's not a bad thing what so ever, anything that encourages people to write is good but I think it does contribute to similar settings. Fans want to read more not-quite-Tolkein so that's what they write and what publishers pick up.