Let's openly discuss originality.

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by The Tourist, May 6, 2012.

  1. The Tourist

    The Tourist Banned

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    None, absolutely nothing, zero, zip, zilch, nada.

    My vitriol is saved for the small minds who seek to puff up their weak plots and mediocre imagination by ripping off the work of others.
     
  2. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Maybe you should dial back the vitriol.
     
  3. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    While I admire the spirit of your post, I think your logic is a little flawed. Just because "the masses" like something doesn't mean they think its original. In fact, a lot of people take comfort in seeing the same things over again. Turn on the radio.

    You even go so far as to contradict yourself (I think) when you say "There are still publishers and readers alike who think these things are original..." followed directly by "most readers are not even well-read enough to spot originality..."

    Anyway, I'm just pointing out that popularity doesn't necessarily imply originality. That's why we have crazes and trends. Eventually people want something fresh, but after a while whatever is in will become stale, but there's that whole period in between where it's not necessarily original.
     
  4. Ventis

    Ventis Member

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    I don't have a problem if someone is retelling somene else's story in a new way... If I was against that, I wouldn't be able to watch any movie based on a book. But it must have some kind of 'added value'. A reason to read not only the original, but also derivated story. And for me, different use of language or trivialities in characters or plot are not enough.

    Heh, I was almost lynched when I said this at a fanfiction site. :D But the same is true for any book. Few years back, my friend - an editor - created a 'template' of the romance genre, mocking all the 'original' stories she received. All that was necessary was to choose the names of the main characters, their profession, and settings, and tweak few things... in less than two hours, the story was done. Few months later, she told me, desperate and depressed, that she has a feeling some people didn't understand it, took it seriously and really use it. :D

    As for bestsellers - yes, they're sold and famous. But they often receive as much hate as love. Many people buy books because they're a part of their 'image'. Some buy bestsellers that are famous, some buy literary books recommended by famous critics. And, of course, the image also requires bashing of the books they don't read. The real readers, who read what they like, not what someone else tells them what they should like, are in great minority. That's my experience, at least.
     
  5. The Tourist

    The Tourist Banned

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    While I shake my head when I see this, you are absolutely right.

    But then, the world is full of posers. It even infests motorcycling. Do you know how hard it is to turn a bike with a 20" over front end? Some of those bikes need a parking lot apron to do a 180. The reason? They all want to look like Peter Fonda.

    I'll bet I go out for coffee with my wife four times per week. Sitting at the coffee bar at B&N, I can see the bigger display tables near the front door. If you think you'll ever see something serious, or thought provoking or a classic in that area, guess again.

    What you'll see is large signs trumpeting the Da Vinci Code, The Hunger Games, and Twilight connected displays. They even had a reverse phenomenon--books about Iron Man after the movie came out.

    There are two things operating here. Corporations that want to make money, which I understand. But what I do not understand is why "being part of the herd" is so enticing. They don't seem to know the distinction between a "trend setter" and the trend. They just grab the trend.

    It's nice to be part of something, I agree. But there's a fine line between a diversion and an obsession. Did you know that sports equipment distributors couldn't keep archery equipment on the shelf after Rambo II? They're having trouble again. My distributor always had ESEE survivalist arrowheads in stock, they were the tools of the hard-core preppers. The moment the Hunger Games came out they were B/O.

    You put a knife in a movie and they sell themselves. Now most of that stuff sits in drawers. Probably next to an unfinished zombie screenplay. I do not understand the rationalization in voluntarily handing over your free will and wallet for the momentary glory of the illusion of inclusion.
     
  6. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    At last, we reach the root of your frustrations. It surprises me that at your age you're still so strongly bothered by this. Haven't you seen it all your life? Or has it gotten worse with increasing commercial power?

    Either way, I think once you find your place in life you'll stop being so critical about this. Art has a place in this world. So do gimmicks. Unfortunately incessant complaining usually leaves one alone and at the bottom.
     
  7. Lazy

    Lazy Banned

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    I don't disagree with anything you said. I was only saying that the populous at large really doesn't value originality as much as you do. There are lots of books that are incredibly original and no one buys them. Even the ones that do get pretty popular are not actually that popular. I've never met anyone that's read House of Leaves, for example.

    Being original may get your critical praise and a cult following but won't necessarily make you the next Suzanne Collins.
     
  8. minstrel

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Supporter Contributor

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    One point I'd like to make that's related to this "originality" issue is this: While nearly all stories have been told before in some musty old classics, today's young people generally don't read musty old classics. Modern writers have a valid task in bringing the essence of the old stories up to date, rewriting them with new interpretations and new language that will be relevant to young readers today, in today's world. Old stories get told and retold and re-retold for each new generation or two, and that's a good thing. The best of the old becomes relevant and attractive to today's readers.

    There's a ton of room for creativity in doing that, even if the basic plot elements are not original.
     
  9. Fullmetal Xeno

    Fullmetal Xeno Protector of Literature Contributor

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    Cogito is right. Without a notion, the word original is useless. To me it starts with a whole new way of looking at things, then a character, then a mood and so forth... i write with a mood and just let it out. Crafting the other parts just falls into place.
     
  10. Ventis

    Ventis Member

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    I guess it depends on your priorities, and what you want to achieve as a writer.

    For me, the choice between popularity and originality, is very simple. I don't care for bestsellers; I prefer besttellers. I had to google Suzanne Collins and found out she's the author of that young adult fiction, The Hunger Games. I remember I read a bit of it, back when I first saw it in 2009 (I think). I was not impressed, so I ignored all the hype. ^^ Why would I want to be like her? Thank you, but no. Not even if it would bring me the popularity she has now.

    After all, House of Leaves was also a bestseller, and I know many people who read it. How many people (especially young adults) you think will read The Hunger Games in 2024?
     
  11. Lazy

    Lazy Banned

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    That's very noble and artistic of you but good luck paying the bills that way.

    Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone was published in 1997. How many people will read it in 2012? Hunger Games is obviously nowhere near as popular but I doubt it is a passing fad.
     
  12. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    How one pays the bills has very little to do with what one writes, since very few published writers can live off their writing anyway. ;)
     
  13. Lazy

    Lazy Banned

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    , unless one intends to be a professional writer.
     
  14. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Or. Is.
     
  15. Dagolas

    Dagolas Banned

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    Not alot is original...

    Original is blue vampires in space who like to tango on the 29th of february while snorting fanta out of their ears. Oh wait, that exists, you just ripped off the book "Shamalamadingdong" by Nathan Pringle...

    See what I mean? Practically nothing is original...
     

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