1. Howard_B
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    Howard_B Active Member

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    Medical: Create pocket under skin ?

    Discussion in 'Research' started by Howard_B, Oct 28, 2014.

    Yes .. a spy novel :)

    I want a person to hide a miniature memory circuit in a capsule the size of a capsule pill, and smuggle out out of a facility by slipping it into a prepared 'pocket' under their skin.
    How 'moderately' feasible would it be to create a small such pocket, and keep it from healing with an insert that would have a 'tab' to keep the opening also from healing over .. for perhaps a week or more ?
    It would be painful I am guessing ... and local analgesic cream could be used ...

    Feasible ? Credible ?
     
  2. A.M.P.
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    A.M.P. People Buy My Books for the Bio Photo Supporter Contributor

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    I know this could easily be done.
    How? No idea.
     
  3. Howard_B
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    Howard_B Active Member

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    Thanks for replying AMP ... but without having some idea how it would be done, one cannot really have an idea as to whether it can be done.
    Clearly a pocket could be created surgically. But then the issues arise of ... infection, some kind of tissue reaction, preventing the skin over the pocket from being abandoned by the body, essentially becoming a scab and falling off.
     
  4. A.M.P.
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    A.M.P. People Buy My Books for the Bio Photo Supporter Contributor

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    Nah, even without an idea I can easily believe it to be doable.
    What's so complicated about having a little baggy inserted under the skin?
    No weirder than breast implants or stuff you see in spy movies.
    I might not know how it's done, but I'd never question it if I read about it.
     
  5. Howard_B
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    Howard_B Active Member

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    Hey you make it sound very credible :) I can't deny it :) And maybe you're right ... I might be over thinking it.
     
  6. Komposten
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    Komposten Insanitary pile of rotten fruit Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I have no idea whatsoever of how a bunch of electrical signals can be used to show this forum on my screen, but I still believe that it can be done. :cool:
     
  7. Howard_B
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    Howard_B Active Member

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    But surely ... only because you have seen it done :pop:
     
  8. A.M.P.
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    A.M.P. People Buy My Books for the Bio Photo Supporter Contributor

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    Not necessarily.
    We live in an age where we have more information floating in our brains that we have actual understand or knowledge of.
    I may have never seen someone perform heart surgery but I wholeheartedly (pun) believe it's done everyday.
    I've never met someone with aids but I believe there are people most likely getting infected as you read this.
    I also know how to imagine 6 billion humans though I've hardly met more than a thousand in my life.

    We have knowledge precursors that we use to identify truths vs falsifications.
    It's that "gut" feeling you get that a report you read is wrong or biased even though you know little about the subject.
    The little things that you know about the world simply don't seem to exactly add up at times.
     
  9. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    OK, so here's the problem trying to make a pocket in the body, it will almost certainly grow back together. You might be able to make one out of a fold of skin, but unless you are talking aliens here there's no way realistically hide the opening.

    You might be able to use something artificial, like a large pig blood vessel. But again, how would you conceal the opening?

    So here's your best option, build this artificial pocket out of a pig aorta (pig blood vessel tissues are compatible with humans so you don't get massive inflammation and rejection). But to get in and out of it the person would need to actually cut through the skin. And that would limit being able to get in and out of the pocket only once.

    Why not have him swallow the capsule and wait for it? Or have him swallow it in a pouch with a tiny filament that ties on to a tooth. Later he pulls it back out of his stomach by the filament?

    Just some ideas.
     
  10. Komposten
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    Komposten Insanitary pile of rotten fruit Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Unless, of course, the skin is treated with a compound that binds around the opening and prevents the body from constructing the scar tissue that seals the wound.
    Still, there would be the problem of the "pouch" potentially opening when the skin around stretches/contracts. Though maybe that could be solved with some kind of organic glue to accompany the "no-grow-back"-compound.

    Sure, neither of these compounds may exist to date, but who cares? This is fiction.
     
  11. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Care to name that compound? I thought the OP was asking about something that actually existed.
     
  12. Darkkin
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    Darkkin Reflection of a nobody Contributor

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    Is somethng like this possible using a biopolymer? Pig flesh could be used as an anchor around the biopolymer and wouldn't flesh over immediately. There have also been cases of magicians having had pockets created in their mouths, using their own skin. It is a workable plan.
     
  13. Howard_B
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    Howard_B Active Member

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    Fair points and thanks for the reply and ideas. Don't think I am ignoring them.

    Firstly. Hiding won't be an issue because I was envisaging (and have already written it) as being created at the back of the neck high up at the hair line of a woman with long hair. Maybe under the hair.
    Secondly. The growing back - I was thinking that for a period of a week, maybe some kind of dummy, with some kind of 'growth preventer/suppressor' cream (??) could be left inside until it's needed.
     
  14. Howard_B
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    Howard_B Active Member

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    This is an important point you make. I agree with spirit of this principle. Even if this procedure would be very difficult to achieve ... if it is credible and not 'ridiculous' ... this is almost enough.
     
  15. Komposten
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    Komposten Insanitary pile of rotten fruit Staff Supporter Contributor

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    It's kind of the same concept as you suggested yourself, the one with the "'growth preventer/suppressor' cream".

    @GingerCoffee
    No, I cannot name such a compound. That's why I added the "Sure, neither of these compounds may exist to date, but who cares? This is fiction." part to my post. As for whether the procedure have to exist/be feasible with today's tools, Howard himself suggested "some kind of 'growth preventer/suppressor' cream", which I interpret as something that may or may not exist.
     
  16. Howard_B
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    Howard_B Active Member

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    I am hoping that one of the medical people that visit here from time to time, like Jezzebel, might drop by and tell me if there is some major factor that is being overlooked :crazy:
     
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  17. Komposten
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    Komposten Insanitary pile of rotten fruit Staff Supporter Contributor

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    You could always to an "@-mention" (like I did in my previous post) to try to get Jazzabel's attention. :)
     
  18. Darkkin
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    Darkkin Reflection of a nobody Contributor

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    Mitosis inhibitor, via an injection around the site.
     
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  19. B93
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    B93 Active Member

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    Read some of the piercing web sites like BME. They have done small dermal pockets. If kept open until the skin heals, they won't grow closed for a while.
     
  20. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    You could certainly use that in fiction. In reality the first stages of healing involve platelet aggregation and the lying down of a connective tissue network that serves as a scaffolding for the new cells. And in addition, some cells migrate to the area rather than dividing.

    Also, it's one thing to use anti-mitotic substances to kill a tumor, but with wound healing using them wouldn't just keep the opening from closing, it would also keep the pouch from healing and you need some kind of healing to occur inside the pocket.

    But cell division is key part of wound healing so the adhesion of the wound edges wouldn't be great. The spy could essentially pick the scab off, and add a topical anticoagulant to stop the fresh bleeding and re-scab over the wound flap.

    It could be done, in a book. ;)
     
  21. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    That is essentially what happens inside of piercings, creating the pocket is not a problem. It's hiding the opening that is the problem.
     

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