1. cutecat22
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    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    Movie Mistake is driving me nuts!

    Discussion in 'Entertainment' started by cutecat22, Feb 1, 2015.

    OK, so I sat as long as I could yesterday and watched The Hobbit. In all fairness, I slept through a lot but then today, I tried to sit through The Desolation of Smaug. Now, I may have mentioned in the past that fantasy - Tolkein - is really not my bag but, hey ho ...

    So the bit that really got my goat ... the dwarves make it back to the chambers to look for the arkenstone, they fool Smaug into lighting the furnace, afterwhich, they open the doors to let the molten gold flow down the gullys like a river. So then Thorin picks up a wheelbarrow and rides the river of gold ...

    HOW THE HELL!?????

    If the wheelbarrow is made of wood, it would surely burn in flames as soon as it hits the gold. If the barrow is made of any kind of metal with a melting point lower than that of gold, it would melt as soon as it hit the river of gold. If it's metal with a higher melting point, ok it wouldn't melt but as metal is the best conductor of heat, Thorin would be burned to a crisp.

    So what the hell is the wheelbarrow made out of??
     
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  2. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    I think I once read an explanation for this in that 1) the wheelbarrow is steel, and 2) the dwarves are a more physically resilient race than other races in Middle Earth. If memory serves it has to do with the fact that the Dwarves, unlike all the other races, were created by one of the secondary gods at the beginning of time, outside the "song" of creation. It was done without permission and if my memory of the Silmarillion holds, the #1 god (I can't remember all the names in the arcana) dictated that the Dwarves would have to draw their spark of life from the secondary god who created them, not from the primary god and not from the "song" of creation. Blah, blah, blah, D&D bewbs, blah, blah. LOL :-D

    My personal film bête noire is the film called The Interpreter. You know, you work in a super nerdy career field, you never think that someone will make an exciting movie about what you do, and then lo and behold they do! And the film, from a point of any kind of accuracy, sucks donkey schlong. The title character would not only have been fired within 10 minutes of the film starting, she would never have gotten a job as a U.N. interpreter. Her background was fraught with political connections and even connection to guerrilla groups. She would never have made it to the metal detector at the entrance!
     
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  3. cutecat22
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    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    LOL - then they should explain that or change the scene. I hate it when that happens - which is probably why I'm not a fantasy fan. In fantasy, anything goes but my mind just won't go along for the ride!

    I've not seen the Interpreter but I completely understand where you're coming from. I was advised to 'fictionalise' my non-fiction book to make it more appealing but I refused. It was never meant to be a dramatic story with a woe is me or rags to riches storyline, it was just meant to be me recounting what happened during two years of my life. Which is what I did.

    Sometimes, the unrealness of things spoils the story.
     
  4. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    If there is a plothole in a fantasy film ... a wizard did it.
     
  5. 123456789
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    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    I was thinking about this the other day (although regarding different caliber films than the one discussed in the OP). Is "realness" that important? I say yes, but only in the sensory sense. If you can feel yourself there, get stuck in the moment, that is more than good enough. I watched a movie that ripped my heart out the other day. On an emotional and physical level, I was totally there, and I could barely get up after the credits rolled. Days later I've recuperated,and have begun to doubt the logic of the film- I had just got caught up in the moment. In sum, plotholes are fine, maybe even necessary, but the details themselves need to make sense, so you can connect to the film (comedy is an entirely different animal).

    What were you expecting, though, Cutecat, watching a children's movie?
     
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  6. Chinspinner
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    Chinspinner Contributing Member Contributor

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    Yup, "magic" is the answer to a lot of shit and inconsistent fantasy.
     
  7. cutecat22
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    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    I get that in fantasy, anything can happen. I just found myself unable to suspend my belief for that moment when he jumped in the barrow.

    I mean, we are talking about a place that doesn't exist, races of beings that don't exist, magic and hobbits with big hairy feet and one ring to rule them all so why can't there be a kind of metal forged in the depths of dwarf mountain that can withstand the heat of molten gold and not burn the occupant of said wheelbarrow while he's using it to escape from a fire breathing dragon with the voice of the oh-so-evil Benedict Cumberbatch?

    I just need certain things explaining to me ... Thorin could have said "You go that way and distract him while I travel the river of molten gold in a barrow forged in the fires of hell to withstand the heat and protect me from bursting into flames ..."

    :-D

    This is why I can't physically read out my own work in front of people - I would keep stopping to explain why I wrote what I wrote!
     
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  8. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    There are actually numerous scenes in the films where the dwarves (and Bilbo, which is more problematic since he's not a dwarf) hide behind questionably narrow columns and other sundry architecture while Smaug pelts them with flame large enough, voluminous enough, and certainly hot enough to still sizzle the bajinkies out of them. The two or three inches of clearance on either side wouldn't be enough without mystical/magical explanations.
     
  9. cutecat22
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    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    I thought that too! The amount of flame he expels would be enough to fill the room and actually melt all the coins ...

    AND, how could Smaug breath without accidentally sucking a coin up through his gigantic nostril and choking himself!???
     
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  10. peachalulu
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    peachalulu Contributing Member Reviewer Contributor

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    I learned not to take realism too seriously in films. My mother introduced me to classics when I was 11 years old and one of the first films I watched was Journey to the Center of the Earth with James Mason. Great film btw. But in the end as they found Atlantis and the lava pours in ( nobody is boiled from the heat ) they ride a sacrificial bowl up the shaft of the volcano ( again they should be steam cooked by now ) and escape by being hurtled into the sea. Everyone is fished out of the water none the worse for wear although their clothes are pretty rag tag. By now they should be barbequed with every bone in their body broken from hitting the water from that height. But why let logic ruin the movie?

    I'm far more miffed when producers expect me to believe Johnny Depp as Willy Wonka. Or that Peeta in the Hunger Games could paint himself into the surroundings when it looked like he had a team of experts do it.
     
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  11. cutecat22
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    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    I LOVE the James Mason Centre of The Earth film!
     
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  12. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    Have I ever told you how much I love the inherent, innate, and perfectly natural humor of your posts, @peachalulu? :-D Your descriptions are enviable in their color. ;)
     
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  13. peachalulu
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    peachalulu Contributing Member Reviewer Contributor

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    Thank you, Wreybies! :)
     
  14. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    If I recall correctly, in the book they make the ride on a wooden raft. So kudos to the screenwriter who decided that couldn't work.
     
  15. Chinspinner
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    Chinspinner Contributing Member Contributor

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but wood be the more likely to survive and insulate against heat than metal?
     
  16. cutecat22
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    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    No, we are talking about a river of molten gold, the temperature for molten gold is 1337.33 K (1064°C) which means that any wood would burst into flames as soon as it touched the molten gold.
     
  17. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    Or actually molten lava in the case of Journey to the Center of the Earth. Which is 1,200 C and therefore would pretty much incinerate the wood.
     
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  18. Chinspinner
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    Chinspinner Contributing Member Contributor

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    There's a reason why I'm asking this. In timber framed buildings, during fire the outer layer of the timber chars and forms a layer of insulation which often protects the rest of the timber from burning, at least for a period of time. Only when there is sufficient charring for the timber to lose its structural strength does the building collapse. So if I was choosing between a metal wheelbarrow which is frankly going to result in fatal burns and lose all structural integrity very quickly, or a timber wheelbarrow which may insulate me (depending on the timber and thickness), then I would go for timber.
     
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  19. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    The timber's might be insulated from the fire, but they are also on fire. I don't think that there is a best solution here.
     
  20. ChickenFreak
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    ChickenFreak Contributing Member Contributor

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    I find myself imagining a steel wheelbarrow, lined with new green wood. (Since wood theoretically won't catch until the water is driven out of it, and green wood has a lot of water.) Not that that actually seems plausible, but it would be harder to figure out the exact temperature that the character is exposed to. Hard enough that I might say, "Yeah, whatever," and stop being indignant.
     
  21. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    No, that's a super bad idea. Green wood when heated up like that will shed the water, either scalding you with steam, or in extreme cases, exploding.
     
  22. 123456789
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    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Look, when you go to the theatre to watch a dwarf "surf" down a CGI river of molten gold, compliments of a CGI dragon, that is what you are going to see.

    The big powerhouses in Hollywood will keep churning out the crap as long as people are going to see it. I've read some articles lately if anyone is interested, explaining why Hollywood is so bad these days and how it all comes down to the bottom line. In short, no big producer is going to give you something smart, when they know for sure people WILL go see something stupid.
     
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  23. Void
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    Void Contributing Member

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    My main problem with the Hobbit films is the third film. It has by far the most inconsistent tone I have ever seen.

    There are sections with shots of women and children being slaughtered by the orcs, playing in slow motion with the most mournful music playing over it. The whole scene just screams, "look at all the death. Look at all the horror. Isn't war just the most terrible thing ever?"
    Then there are shots of people doing all the ridiculously over choreographed fight scenes that the Peter Jackson middle earth films specialise in. And they just scream, "look at all the acrobatics. Look at all the excitement. Isn't war just the most awesome thing ever?"
    Then there are more scenes where the camera pans in slow motion over all the corpses of dead women and children, with yet more mournful music. And it's right back to, "look at all the death. Look at all the horror. Isn't war just the most terrible thing ever?"
    Then there are scenes where the dwarves are standing in the middle of the battlefield and completely ignoring all the fighting while they greet each other like they have just met in a tavern. And it's once more right back to, "look at all the acrobatics. Look at all the excitement. Isn't war just the most awesome thing ever?"

    I've never seen a movie that tries so hard to make me cry with one hand, and make me wank off to all the action with the other, and ultimately fail at both. It never works out well when you cry and wank into the same tissue ...
     
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  24. cutecat22
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    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    I thought the bowl/plate/whatever it is in Journey was not made of wood??
     
  25. cutecat22
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    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    That's because the timber has been treated. (Chemically). There are a range of timber treatments in the timber industry that treat for different specifications. Marine ply is waterproofed, wood for fencing is treated to ensure it won't rot, timber for house building is treated to withstand a certain temperature from a fire, (not molten gold) etc. my OH works in the timber industry so I know that much.
     

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