1. Patrick94
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    Patrick94 Active Member

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    Novels forum

    Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by Patrick94, Jul 15, 2011.

    I think placing the genre in the title should be made mandatory, so you can have a look at all the crime stories before going at one yourself etc.
     
  2. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    Unless you have a long title, then the space resctrictions jack you up...
     
  3. Patrick94
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    Patrick94 Active Member

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    Maybe make a drop down list or something? Or making sub forums in there for each genre?
     
  4. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    Where would one post soemthing that covered several genres?
    For instance A hi scif fi / romance/ fantasy / social commentary?

    99% of people put it in the opening lines anyway those that don't ( my self included ) are noobs.
     
  5. EdFromNY
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    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    And a whole new fight breaks out over what genre it belongs in...
     
  6. jo spumoni
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    jo spumoni Active Member

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    Well, I kind of wish there were a couple of subcategories under the novel section like there are for short stories; you know, just the basics: "general fiction," "fantasy," "mystery", etc. There might be disputes about what genre something goes under, but it doesn't seem to deter anybody too much in the short story section.

    However, there doesn't seem to be too much variety in the novel forum. Seems like 90% of it is fantasy and the other 10 is sort of miscellaneous general fiction. I mean, I once posted a historical fiction chapter and a bunch of the comments were along the lines of "wow, it's not fantasy?"
     
  7. Sundae
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    Sundae Contributing Member

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    I totally agree. It would be nice to easily find and read something in the genres that interest me without having to weed through the massive amount of fantasy excerpts there.

    No, because that would be the author's discretion. The excerpts in the novel section are so small that it would be inappropriate for readers to comment on the genre without having the entire scope of the novel idea at hand first.
     
  8. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    ":Mandatory?" Just how do you expect yo enforce such a mandate? What if the novel doiesn't fit neatly into one genre?

    I'm sorry, but this aspect of the suggestion is unworkable, and in my opinion, presumptuous,

    As for subdividing Novels, that has been discussed before. It's possible, but would require a great deal of work categorizing the existing novels threads. The conclusion back then was that it was a lot ofd work with no real benefit. The work required is now greatly increased from back then, and there still is no clear benefiot to undertaking it.

    As it is, the subdivison of Short Stories has been as much a buisance for members as a benefit.
     
  9. Sundae
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    Sundae Contributing Member

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    If it doesn't fit into one category, then authors are free to say "no genre," "multiple genres" or label it "general". Just as the short story section as a "general fiction" section, the novel section can be the same way.

    But if you do know what genre it is, I don't see why it can't to be included in the thread title.

    The section wouldn't even need subcategories (I actually don't like that idea), but having general guidelines on how to title a thread to include relevant information in my opinion would be very helpful.

    Something like:

    Title / Genre / Number of Revisions / Post/Update Date

    The Evil Curse / Multiple-Genres / 07/17/2011
    The Evil Curse / Multiple-Genres / 2 Revisions / Updated: 07/26/2011

    The Evil Curse / Mystery / 2 Revisions / Updated 07/26/2011
    The Evil Curse / General / 2 Revisions / Updated 07/26/2011


    In my opinion, it seems to have more pros than cons. Not only does it help readers pick out what they want to read, but by being able to quickly see an update date or see that the author has made a revision, those that have left critiques can better keep track of thread and see if their suggestions/critiques helped or not.

    It also forces the author to think about a fundamental question in regards to their novel: Does my novel fit into a genre? If yes, which one, and if not, do I want it to? Or do I deliberately don't want the readers to know the genre?

    A lot of people don't think about the genres of their novel when they first start writing - but as it has been said in many different writing threads, knowing your target audience and your target genre is part of writing a successful novel. Of course, there will be exceptions to everything, and this is no different, but in my opinion, I just see more pros than cons.

    Anyways, this is just a suggestion and I wouldn't be a proper contributor to this site if I didn't put it out there. If it's been talked about before and the suggestion has been nixed for whatever reason, then.. *shrug*
     
  10. Jayyy1014
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    Jayyy1014 Jerrica Contributor

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    Yeah, one novel can fit into several genres. I.e The novel I'm currently working on will fit romance/War fiction/ a sort of a tragedy. All novels are different, have different genres, more than one genre and all that good stuff.. But simply if the novel you were reading wasn't the genre you were wanting to read/review. You can simply exit and Try a different one.
     
  11. jo spumoni
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    jo spumoni Active Member

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    The genre thing should not be a problem. First off, why can't we do what we do in the "short story" section and have a "general fiction" category where you could post stuff that doesn't quite fit a genre? Second of all, most novels fit a genre of some kind and most authors know what the genre is, at least essentially. And most reviewers aren't tactless or picky enough to say, "well, this is really only 80% romance; I mean, 20% of it is action so it doesn't fit here." But ultimately, just like in the short story section, it's up to the author to decide where their story fits and what section will give them the best feedback. While the moderators can move stuff, it's pretty much no one else's business...so why should anyone care enough to fight about that? The system works in the short story section and it could work perfectly fine in the novel section.

    I don't care if you all do it or not, I'm just a little irritated that the major reason some of you think it won't work has to do with the very concept of genres...that's a pretty illogical argument. At every bookstore, there's shelves full of mysteries, romances, horror, and general fiction novels. If every novel was truly unique, there would be absolutely no use in that system. But the fact is, novels follow trends and genres, and while there are gray areas, almost everything can be categorized. The categorization helps us find things more easily so that we don't spend hours and hours looking for something we might like to read. In this case, it would help writers review works they are most knowledgeable about and it would help writers receive reviews from more qualified writers. While I got some good feedback on a historical fiction piece I posted in the novel section, I don't pretend it wouldn't have been more helpful if the people who replied to my post knew more about historical fiction.
     
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  12. Reggie
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    Reggie I Like 'Em hot "N Spicy Contributor

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    How about we just post what the genre for the story is rather than just adding sub forums for the Novel like the Short Story section?
     
  13. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    I refuse to be regulated to a pre set notion of what is what.
    How hard is it to read the first two lines? That is where 99% of people post the "Type" of work it is.
     
  14. jo spumoni
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    jo spumoni Active Member

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    I for one don't really buy the notion that every novel isn't based on a "preset notion of what is what", but fine, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that your book really fits absolutely no genre at all. Well, we could have a category for that: it would be called "general fiction." Provided, of course, your work is "regulated to a preset notion of what is what" enough to actually be classified as a "novel" or "short story"...

    Your personal aversion to categorization is OK with me, but it shouldn't stop moderators or whoever from implementing a categorization system if others think it would be useful to have.

    As for reading the first two lines--flipping through a million posts in the novel section looking for something specific isn't fun at all, even if the author does put the genre in the first two lines of the post. On some search engines, the site takes a long time to load, and clicking on every post, reading the first two lines, and then going back is kind of annoying. It would be easier if it was in the title or if the forum was divided into subsections. To be honest, the fact that there aren't subsections really does deter me from using the novel section, and judging by what others have said it, it deters a few others as well. However, I'll use the site regardless of whether the change gets implemented.
     
  15. Sundae
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    Sundae Contributing Member

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    I have to agree with Jo. The very argument of genres as a reason to NOT categorize is pretty illogical. EVERY single book is more than one genre, the only difference is that there usually is one overwhelming genre in the bunch; one genre the book fulfills more than any other.

    No one is trying to take your choices away or make you conform to anything. If you do not want to list a genre, that's fine - and a way around that has already been presented in this thread, yet it seems like the genres as a reason not to, keep popping up as if it's damning and the end to all novelkind.

    We're all adults here. No one can make you conform or make you feel anything but yourself. The whole point of categorization is to make it easier, help everyone involved, and find a functional way to even USE the search function of the section. Try using the search function of that section and see out how hard it is to do a query based on keywords. You'll have stuff popping up that make absolute no sense because it's indirectly related to your query; it's complete useless the way it is now.

    Not to mention, it's a two-way street. The novel section isn't just for those posting excerpts but for those reading and critiquing too and those that are critiquing are HELPING those that are writing yet to make it easier for them is meeting nothing but roadblocks for no other reason than genres - yet solutions of how to maneuver around that have been discussed and more can be thought up if can get some kind of clue as to whether our suggestions are even being heard.

    As it has been stated, even general guidelines on how to title a thread would be helpful. Some of the thread titles in the section are like 'YAY first chapter of my awesome novel." - it's unprofessional. You're presenting work to be critiqued, and even if none of us are pros yet, we are all professionals within this forum because we're all working on our set of skills, and are looking for guidance and support.

    The bookstore reason has already been stated so I won't go into that. But, I think posting what your novel is about in the first two lines is a bad idea, and one of the reasons why is because authors are more likely going to put things in that blurb that will make those that critique biased. As a personal rule, I do not read any beginning words of the first parts of the novel if it not part of the parts that need to be critiqued because I do not want to go into my perception of the excerpt being biased. I also do not read any of the other critique posts before mine so that I'm giving the author my very best unbiased critique.

    Posting blurbs of what your novel is about or talking about your novel in the beginning of your post is actually discouraged on this site and there are valid reasons for that of which I wholeheartedly agree. You can read up on those in the site guidelines etc.

    Anyways, I'm not opposed to hearing other arguments of why categorization of the section is not possible, but if genres is all you have, then in my opinion, the confining fence is being drawn by you and no one else.

    I'm in the same boats as many. Every single novel that I'm working on is multiple-genres. I'm not blind to the fact that many others' work will be too, but I can still see the benefits of categorization.

    For example, say I'm working on a fantasy novel, but the particular part i"m having trouble with is the romance part. Then, I can post that section of the fantasy part in the romance section to get opinions/critiques/suggestions from those whose craft relies in the romance section.

    I mean... there will be negatives to every side, and this is no exception, but right now, the positives seem to outweigh the negatives, and I don't see many arguments of why this is not a good idea.
     
  16. Patrick94
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    Patrick94 Active Member

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    Yeah I think I said that in the OP, it's just ... people wouldn't do it, I suppose
     
  17. Batgoat
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    Batgoat Senior Member

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    And yet, when your novel is published and put onto shelves at a bookstore in order to sell it, will it not be categorised anyway?

    In this notion, the point is moot.

    If the author has issues with needing to place excerpts of their novel into a category, then they should be making such distinctions either in the title or the first sentences of their post.

    Seeing as this is merely a tool to garner helpful critiques and not the actual publication of these stories, then the whole concept of genre is not worth this debate.

    What you're really looking for by posting here--from what I have observed in my short time here--is ways to improve the "writing" rather than the affirmation that yes, your story fits into the genre you said it does, or doesn't belong anywhere; the latter of course, does not really exist, but is a pretentious "arty" conceit that vainglorious "literati" use to poncify their writing.
     
  18. Blue_Lotus
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    Blue_Lotus Senior Member

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    I supose I should have been a tad more specific.

    Sub sections in a novel area leads to a major issue, that being while one chapter is clearly Sci fi, the next might be General and the next romance, while others might be political satie... It is annoying to have to post sections of the same novel in dif sections. Forcing the author to decide where best that paticular chapter fits.

    It works for short stories because you don't see a lot of genre hoping. That being said, that is why I have left other forums because I had to add links to all my chapters so a reader could follow along. It is annoying, and even harder for the reader who would like to read the story as it evolves from start to finish. Think opening one link to read either the first few lines is bad for some imagine having to click internal links, hoping it leads you to the correct one.

    Now, if we were to say, have a code of sorts that we could TAG the post with then we could search by tags, but I have noticed no one here uses the tags function.
    Also if people would post ALL the portions of their Novel under the same posting then you would have 1 post per author per novel cleaning up the area rather nicely.

    And yes I march to the beat of my own drum, if someone else feels the need to stick me (my work) in a box to fit their own needs so be it, but I refuse to do it to myself... hence my aversion to the OP's idea.
     
  19. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    That is a non-issue. You may not post different chapters of the same novel in different threads. One novel, one thread. Please read How to Use the Writing Workshop.
     

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