1. lessa
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    lessa Contributing Member

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    One of the Universities here is on strike.

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by lessa, Sep 17, 2008.

    Now I have a problem with this for several reasons.
    One being the kids who suffer.
    Nobody but the employer ever wins.
    It is an exercise in futility.

    I do not think that Firemen, Policemen and teachers of any grade level
    should be allowed to strike.

    I am not against unions. I am married to a long time union man but strikes
    never accomplish what people want.

    But the 3 I mentioned hurt more than the union members and their employers.

    So I am wondering what others think on the subject.
    No need to bash unions or management since both have their places just let me know if the three in your opinion should be allowed considering they hold so many people hostage if they do.
     
  2. lordofhats
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    lordofhats Contributing Member

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    In general I agree with the concept of a union and everyone's right to form or join one if they so choose. Its a good system to protect their rights and give them a voice in their job outside of the general management system.

    In practice though I don't like Unions much. They tend to be completely centered on getting as much money or benefits as possible, often to the point of absurdity. I lost faith in the union system years ago. It's more or less an extremely inefficient method of boxing employers into paying more and frankly it doesn't work.

    My mom and dad told me they lost all faith in unions in 1994 when the millionaire baseball players decided they weren't being paid enough. Honestly when you're making nine figures you have no right to strike.

    Unions just don't work. They've gotten greedy. They demand more than the workers are owed in most cases and they harm the economy if the strike is prolonged.

    For teachers, police, and firemen, striking is a little absurd. They're employed for the most part by the Federal Government or the State/Local Government, which makes them community employees. You can't strike against the Government and win. Its a pointless endeavor. That, and if you go into public service and expect to be paid well, you might want to get a psych eval.

    Honestly, I'd be ok with Unions being banned. There's nothing that can be achieved by a strike (or unachieved) that can't be settled by a joint lawsuit in the courts (which is ironically where many strikes end up anyway). Unions don't serve much of a purpose other than to pointless push employers in the buttons and most strikes fail anyway.
     
  3. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    when policemen and firemen go on strike, people die!... how that can be equated to teachers doing so is beyond me...

    however, as for unions in general, they certainly were needed back when people were forced to work in conditions that were nothing short of slavery... but that's no longer the case and now unions' motivation for striking is not that their members are being hideously mistreated with impunity, but just greed... the normal kind of greed nearly all suffer from in supposedly 'civilized' societies... that is, wanting more money and things, than their neighbors have...

    sure, there may be other issues, such as fringe benefits and so on, but it still comes down to greed, vs the sheer physical survival needs of mostly women and small children, that made unions necessary way back when...

    and teachers never have been in danger of dying from inhuman working conditions [the risk of being killed in the classroom is not due to basic working conditions], and neither have policemen or firemen, so for any of them to go on strike seems to me to be nothing but blackmail... as in 'do this or i will harm you and your loved ones'... and blackmail is a crime, isn't?
     
  4. lessa
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    lessa Contributing Member

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    The mine my husband works at is unionized and it is a good thing it is.
    It was bought by an American Company and they came in thinking they could change the rules to more suit it to the American safety standards.
    The union has fought them tooth and nail and made them see the light. All without a strike.
    The thing about this university strike is that the librarians are on strike so none of the other staff will cross the picket lines.
    So students who are barely making it financially are sitting on their butts with no classes but still paying for food and lodgings.
    Unions are still needed in the mining industry and many other areas where dangerous conditions exist but I do not think a library in a university is one of them.
    police and firemen no way should they be allowed to strike.
    Teachers should have to prove they need what ever it is they want to the public before they are allowed to strike.
    Maia I am not comparing the fire men and police men to the teachers
    I was just saying those are 3 professions where there should be no chance of it.
     
  5. Leaka
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    Leaka Creative Mettle

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    Personally I see no problem a teachers union.
    Because college and universities they don't really matter.
    They are basically used for a social rank or status.
    This is in my opinion.
    I have no problem with unions, if you want to make something better for your life or for something else then that should be fine.
     
  6. Rei
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    Rei Contributing Member Contributor

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    During my first year of college, all the full-time college teachers in Ontario went on strike for three weeks. Maybe there is a better way to get what they want, but it's the way things work now. If things get to the point where kids are going to suffer more than an extra bit of cramming once the strike is over, the goverment can have Back-to-work legislation. It's survivable. If it only lasts a few weeks, it's relatively easy to catch up.

    Leaka, doctors go to school for eight years for status?
     
  7. Banzai
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    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

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    Universities are for social rank or status?? Not really... They're centres of education. I'm not going because I want to be an aristocrat, I'm going because I want to learn, and thus get a good job.
     
  8. Leaka
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    Leaka Creative Mettle

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    Yes, I watched Sicko.

    The doctors here in America are only doing their job for money.
    The more rejections they do the more money they get. So yes its only for status and wealth.

    Universities and Colleges do it for status and wealth because my mother and some adults have told me that they went to college and burnt a hole through their wallet just from buying all the stuff.
    Then my mother says that none of the stuff she learned in college was actually practical for her work and that the school doesn't necessarily prepare you for anything.
     
  9. Rei
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    Rei Contributing Member Contributor

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    So I didn't need to study all that educational psychology or lesson planning to get a job in education?

    (sorry, couldn't help it)

    Let's get on topic.
     
  10. lordofhats
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    lordofhats Contributing Member

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    Seriously? So I can just leave college right now and become a brain surgeon without any education what so ever? Awesome :p!

    Yeah good luck getting a job that pays well without college.

    Maia, I would say that Police and Firemen do have occupational hazards. People usually don't run into a building that's burning to the ground or chase a guy who just stabbed someone to death for fun. Those are occupational hazards they are more likely to encounter than average citizens.

    Rather they can't strike because they are federal/state/local employees. More so usually you sign an employment contract and agree to your pay and working conditions in those professions. Sort of makes striking a little hypocritical. As for teachers, well, teachers? Don't people go into teaching to help folks learn not to make lots of $$$. They're just three groups where it seems a little foolish to stop working to demand a pay raise.
     
  11. Rei
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    Rei Contributing Member Contributor

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    It's not just about how much they are paid. It's also about things like class sizes and work load. When they first started talking about the strike in Ontario, one of my professors who had been teaching for years said that when she started it was unheard of to have a class as big as ours was at such a small college.

    Also, contracts run out. They aren't forever. Every time I heard of a strike happening it was while the union was renegotiating a new one.
     
  12. Leaka
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    Leaka Creative Mettle

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    You pointed it out right there.
    My point I made.
    You can't get any where without a piece of paper saying you learned this.
    Its used as a status.
    If you don't have the paper you are poor and dumb.
    If you do have the paper you are rich and smart.
    That is status.
    It is used to classify people.
     
  13. Rei
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    Rei Contributing Member Contributor

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    Not really. It is evidence of dedication, discipline, and what you know. Besides, ever heard of student lones and scholarships?

    So, unions. It was an interesting three weeks when my professors went on strike. The thing of it is, None of my teachers wanted to go on strike, and they knew that they would be hurting the students. They managed to put it off for almost three months, so they tried just about everything they could through normal negotiations. With the system they were working, it was the only way they knew to get a new agreement that they felt was fair.
     
  14. Banzai
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    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

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    You're way off Leaka...

    University is expensive, yes. And I'll agree, at one point it was only for the social upper class. That was almost a century ago. I don't know how it works in the US, but over here, every UK citizen, who gets a place at a university, has a right to a student loan to enable them to go. And university places are offered on merit of qualifications. Even Oxford and Cambridge are under massive pressure not to just take private school pupils. They offer grants and bursaries to people of less affluent backgrounds, and dedicate a large number of places to them.

    As for the needing a piece of paper, yes you do. And that's a good thing. You know those nice certificates which Doctors, Lawyers and the like have framed on their walls? They're there to show that the person has done all the necessary training. Do you really want someone who hasn't, to have responsibility for your wellbeing? The piece of paper is a qualification, not a status symbol.
     
  15. Speedy
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    Speedy Contributing Member Contributor

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    Most certainly not a status symbol, i mean maybe for morons.

    It should be a symbol of progess. Maybe even a tool to help you remember where you were and where you are now (Qualified and dedicated) and used as a measure for future progess.

    Maybe this starts of with a little truth, but slowly turns into BS.

    Maybe in a world were the only wealth is cash
     

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