1. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Plot nakedness

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by GuardianWynn, Aug 10, 2015.

    So I have this story idea.

    The end is meant to be a fist fight between two characters.

    The guy who started the fight has one of the girls friends as a hostage.

    Basically the idea is;
    "I have your friend. Martial arts only. No magic. If you use magic my team will kill her. Lets see if you are really better than me after all."

    Thing is the friend that is kidnapped. Her name is Cerra. Just so we don't get things too confusing. She is kind of a bad ass herself. And she always has weapons on her. if they have to be under clothing? So be it is her policy. So the guy kidnaps her while she is in the shower. As a means of getting her at a time she is unarmed.

    I figured since he is kidnapping her and threatning to kill her and add the fact she is the type that would use a shirt to grab and hide a pen and stab you in the eye socket with it. That he would keep her nude.

    My friends argument is that a kidnapper wouldn't really keep a girl nude. That it is too unrespectful. He als argues that readers would be turned off by him keeping her nude even though I think he has valid reasons for the choice.

    What do you guys thing?
     
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  2. Aaron DC
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    Aaron DC Contributing Member

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    1. how do you align "respectful" with the act of kidnapping someone? you don't. keeping the kidnapped nude is fine. disrespect comes into kidnapping someone, not forcing them to remain unclothed.
    2. keeping the kidnapped nude is titillating, for me at any rate, and not a turn off. I'm now thinking about bewbs and the hard body of a lethal assassin, glistening in the moonlight. ahem.
    3. capturing someone nude in the shower may be more difficult than clothed and dry. they are wet and slippery, potentially covered in soap, standing on a slippery surface, etc, etc.

    HTH!
     
  3. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Thanks for the feedback

    Also to
    3. She was in like a gym shower. And well. They didn't just grab her kicking and screaming. More like 5 people beat her as in like kicked her in the rips while she was on the ground until she passed out. So... yeah
     
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  4. Vandor76
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    Vandor76 Contributing Member

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    Getting her when she is naked and unarmed is one thing, keeping her naked all the time is another one. He can give her clothes after she is kidnapped. "She can use the clothes as a weapon" - you may say. Yes, but if she is locked in an empty room then this is not a real problem. If she is that badass than she won't need weapons to protect herself so caution is needed anyway.

    If it takes 5 people to get her, maybe using some drug to make her unconscious is a better idea (unless you want to write an action packed combat scene)
     
  5. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Well. Her dangerousness comes from her resourcefulness. As the scene also intended to have her held at all times. As it is said. People don't trust her with locks. So she was restrained by being held by 2 people at all times.

    And it didn't take 5 to beat her. That isn't really a fight scene. That was more a person getting kicked on kind of scene.

    So you think it is bad on the kidnappers for keeping her naked? And held down by two dudes at all times? By held I personally picture to dudes holding her arms away from her body. With it being clear they will kick the shit out of her if she even attempts to move or speak.
     
  6. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    So I'm imagining a naked badass being held by two guys who are keeping her arms away from her body. Her legs are free, right? Couldn't she kick them? She's resourceful, so I would imagine she'd figure out a way to get out of this predicament.

    I'm with Vandor on this one. It'd be much easier for them to just toss her in an empty closet and lock her in.
     
  7. Aaron DC
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    You guys need to watch more TV. You never lock a baddy away out of sight. That's a recipe for MacGyvered escape mechanisms :p
     
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  8. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Yeah there is validity to the room.

    But the question is more on the nakedness?

    Though a few points.

    1. She is a resourceful badass. Not a physical one. So her kicking someone in the face isn't going to like make them explode or anything.

    2. As a different friend said. The resourseful badass is the one that once you leave them alone they start doign stuff! He thinks them holding her down is smart in the sense they never allow her a moment to pick something up, hide something or do something.
     
  9. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    I see you understand what I mean by saying she is a resourceful bad ass. :) lol
     
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  10. Jaiyke
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    Her being kidnapped while she's naked makes logical sense, seeing as how she was in the shower. If it's in the character that kidnapped her's personality, him also keeping her naked would make sense. If that isn't really in his personality, though, then I suppose he could toss her some clothes for her to put on.

    The way I see it, when it comes to describing sex and nudity and even violence, I write what makes sense in terms of story and characters, not taking into consideration if it makes the reader feel uncomfortable. If the scene is meant to make them feel uncomfortable, than great, keep it that way. But I won't deliberately change a scene just to appease what the reader wants. The story I'm currently writing features the main character (a 17 year old girl) in several situations where she's either naked, having sex or being sexually abused in some way. These scenes are meant to be disturbing and uncomfortable, so I don't sugarcoat it, I tell it how it is, without going overboard.

    I suggest you write what you think is right for the scene, and take nothing else into consideration. It's your creation after all, and there's nothing more unfortunate than an artist compromising their vision to appease a sensitive audience. This is literature; we don't have to worry about censorship like films and TV do.
     
  11. Kallisto
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    Kallisto Active Member

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    I don't expect him to be respectful or care in any way about her dignity and you're right: it's pretty realistic and easy to believe. However, practicality aside, reader perspective is highly important. I can see myself as viewing something like this as just an excuse to get the girl out of her clothes. Just because I don't see you being able to develop her character enough where I would be really convinced that she was so capable, they couldn't have clothes on her at all. Why not put her in a straight jacket? That's made for people like that who will literally stab you with a pen.
     
  12. Vandor76
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    No, I do not think that keeping her naked is bad or will frustrate readers, even if it is just because they did not have any clothes to give her. If you write it correctly the reader will understand why is she naked.
    As I understand the kidnapper is the good guy here, isn't he? Is he attracted to this badass girl? At least some readers would think so.
    What about the two dudes holding her? If she is so resourceful, won't she take advantage of her nakedness to divert their attention? I just say that even if she is naked she still has possibilities.

    As you say she is not a warrior type amazon who effortlessly kicks away the heavy guys. If that's the case then two guys holding her arms is fine. You can add a handcuff or rope to the scene if you wish, especially to restrain her legs (adding several levels of security never hurts).

    +1
    You did not mention who your target readers are. Is this a YA fantasy? Will very young people read it? What is the overall level of nudity in the story? If this is the only scene with nudity you may get rid of it by giving her carefully picked clothes that she can't use in any way. If there are many other scenes with nudity or even sex, there won't be a problem if she is carried around the city totally naked.

    +2
    Everything in a story should have some reason to be there. It should have a cause or an effect, that makes it important (sometimes only after a very long time). If there is a good cause behind it and the reader does not ask "How the hell does this come here?" or "Why was that necessary?" then you are fine.
     
  13. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Well the kidnapper isn't exactly good. That doesn't mean she is good either. lol. They were allies both part of a terrorist network. But me personally I see the guys that backstabbed there commrade as kind of worse.

    Also I have no idea who the target readers would be. I figured I write a nice story and publish it and find out later who reads it more. lol.

    Also. She isn't dragged around town. She is at the base. So think like gym showers is where she is hit and she never leaves the gym.

    Also currently there is no other nudity.

    The thing that got me thinking about this. Is an artist drew a .... fan service picture. And I told him if he wanted to draw like that he could have let me pitch him a scene that had that. Then I thought of this scene. As it could.

    Funny enough I think it is notable t mention at this point. She gets freed by help. A friend of hers finds her and breaks in to rescue her. He throws a knife at the man holding her. Which frees her and gives her knife all at the same time. Which is actually the most interesting moment for this. For this girl to be getting payback while still naked. lol.

    Funny enough I am normally not the type to go this route. I make a point to not go fan service. But this felt like a point that the nudity seemed to have plot importance.

    What so you mean you don't see me developing her well enough for to prove she is so capible? lol Funny enough it is a resourseful skill. I think book wise that isn't that hard to show. Basically she is just smart. lol.

    Also. Straight jacket. That might be neat. Seems random though for them to have on hand. lol. Also plenty of people still escape from those. lol
     
  14. Vandor76
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    Vandor76 Contributing Member

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    I have the feeling that you know well enough what you want to do with this scene :)
     
  15. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    That is true. I mean the scene itself doesn't change much based on her having clothing or not.

    The asking really had one purpose.

    Was my friend right on a scene like this either putting the kidnappers into a light I didn't mean to or turn off the reader so bad they would put the book down.

    No one really seems to think the scene would do either. Which is sort of my answer I think
     
  16. Kallisto
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    What I more meant is that she's running into the danger of being so good and so resourceful that she's unrelatable.
     
  17. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Ah! That makes sense.

    Well I am not sure if she is supposed to be relatable at least in that way. I mean she is also a girl with a terminal illness out to prove herself and make a difference in the world before she dies. Not sure if that is any better but I suppose many of us struggle with the thought of not having a meaningful life before we die and her not only having a shorter time but aware of the shorter time might be an aspect that people can relate to. I think.

    What do you think?
     
  18. Aled James Taylor
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    Correct me if I'm wrong. As I understand it, the basic idea is that one character challenges another character to a martial arts contest, to see who's best at martial arts (magic being a possible weapon that is prohibited in the contest). To encourage the other character to take part in the contest, the first character kidnaps and threatens to kill someone. Why is it so important for one character to prove their martial arts ability? Why would the other character be so reluctant to take part, that it takes a kidnapping to change their mind? How does developing fighting ability provide meaning to life or make a difference in the world? If I was diagnosed with a terminal illness, karate lessons or fighting people would not be high on my bucket list.
     
  19. Aaron DC
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    Aaron DC Contributing Member

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    That's why you're not the MC in this novel :D
     
  20. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    I think you have it mostly right.

    Three characters here. Let me give them more definition.

    Cerra - Kidnapped person. Also sick.

    Elizabeth- Cerra's friend. Also the martial artist that gets challenged.

    Dude! Okay he doesn't have a name. Yet. - He organized Cerra to be kidnapped and challeges Elizabeth.

    Point being. Cerra isn't a martial artist as I think the lack of naming Elizabeth may have confused.

    So motivations. First and foremost. All of these characters are working together actually.

    So Elizabeth doesn't want to fight her own team. At least not seriously. She has spared with him, and with magic she wins.

    The dudes motive. Someone makes the claim that she is better than him without magic. He is prideful and doesn't believe it. And she doesn't want to fight him again even in sparing. So he does this to set up his rematch to prove he is better.

    Sound logical? What do you think?
     
  21. Masked Mole
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    What a scandalous thread title. I'm going to have to report you, young lady. We here at Writing Forums don't support this kind of filth.
     
  22. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    o_O no "lol"? Are to serious? :cry:
     
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  23. Masked Mole
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    Don't worry. I won't bust this little party you've got going on. If we do it right, the mods will never notice. Stealth mode. :cool:
     
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  24. Aled James Taylor
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    If this group is into kidnapping, I assume it's some sort of organised crime gang. The situation could be a leadership dispute. The person recognized as leader is the one who's best at fighting, but Elizabeth has gained leadership by fighting with magic, which Dude thinks is cheating (because he's not so good at it), so he contrives a re-match on his own terms. You could also raise-the-stakes by having these two leaders intent on very different policies. Elizabeth can favor general benefits to the people, Dude can have a get-rich-quick attitude, which only benefits the gang. The future of a whole community hinges on the outcome of the fight.
     
  25. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    That is all true actually. Things I was thinking too except middle management.

    As in the dude and Elizabeth are leading the soldiers but they aren't the top commanders. If that makes sense.
     

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