@shadowwalker I'm glad to see someone asking for tangible proof to back up claims. It is too easy to throw around "some surveys" or "from what I've read" or "Many authors." Thanks for trying to keep us honest.
Just stumbled across this thread. Some things: 1: I heard from a little bird that the average paperback page is 250 words. So, 4000 words would only be 16 pages if I'm not mistaken. 2: I like prologues. A bad prologue might mean a bad writer. If a writer can't keep my attention through what is, in my opinion, the easiest part of a book to write, why read the rest? A good prologue gets you boosted and excited for the rest of the content. Movies do it a lot, and it works most of the time. As far as length is concerned... I'd say shorter is better. There are many exceptions though: Inglorious Basterds might not have had the best pacing throughout, but the first scene made a powerful prologue, despite its length.
Only? I haven't read any books beside ASoIaF (weak, I know, but in my defense I the books are enormous and I've only started reading eleven months ago) Well I don't know if a 16 page prologue is long or not, since ASoIaF does not count (its sooooo big) But yeah, I'll assume now that my story will be between 250-350 pages. Depending on the outcome, as I am still conflicted between two "endings" I don't want to publish paperback! It looks ugly! hehe...but really, it does. Despite me not having a say in it. Ugly, ugly, ugly. (If that is what I think it is...hehe)
I'd say the actual length of a prologue can vary just as much as the length of a chapter. I've mostly read books with prologues less than 10 pages long, but there are books with ones in the region of 20-50 pages (sometimes more than that); just like there are books with chapters that range from half a page long to a hundred pages (or more). In general it is the content that matters, not the length. Short does not equal good, just like long doesn't equal crap.
I didn't know if the prologue worked until @T.Trian and I had finished our WIP. And even then, we dread to call it 'prologue.' It could be called 'Chapter 1' too, I think. You know what they say when you try to submit your first ms? Bend over and take it-- Means everyone suggests make compromises and that by the way, you're shit so why are you even trying just don't put a prologue there no one will ever want to read it if you do that for godssake. My opinion? If you have a nice red thread going, if the prologue's tied snappily to the plot, it could work very well, so forget about the length! (especially since fantasy as a genre is forgiving to prologues). So finish your manuscript, shove it to a bunch of beta-readers, and then you'll know even better
Well beta readers that are active and truly devoted is not easy to find. Anyone I know in real won't be much of help, for obvious reasons. Perhaps I should remove my profile picture so it'll be easier for people to be mean on here? At least if I were to get a beta reader from here.
You can find beta readers on forums, for example. Usually you'll just have to prepare to beta-read something in return. And are you saying people here are too nice?
No. Hehe jk, but its easier to talk to someone when not knowing anything about them, one might get slightly biased feelings etc. I think it is easier to speak my mind if I don't know how old the person is, gender, nationality or for example, a picture. This is not true in all cases, but most.
your little bird is... if you had counted the words on pages of various p/bs yourself, instead of relying on that bird, you'd have found they range from 200 to 400 words @ 7 to 10+ words per line, with 34 to 41 lines per page [on the 3 i just checked], depending on the font and pt size used and the ratio of dialog to narrative... so the average would be more like 300...
Thank you Mammamia. Now I feel bad for not checking... Just over 13 pages, then Well, I personally think paperbacks are pretty.
Here's the thing. It doesn't matter if you call it a prologue or chapter one. It doesn't matter if it's ten words or ten thousand. All that matters is that the reader will find the writing entertaining. That means every page, paragraph, and sentence. Fail that and the reader closes the cover right then, on whatever line they find boring or confusing. And make no mistake. When a reader is auditioning you they will find a report format—fact following fact—boring, unless you're one hell of a writer.
That's an interesting angle. But I think as long as it's about the novel/short/etc, not personal attacks, the critter should have the right to be honest and the crittee shouldn't take possible criticism personally. Usually I appreciate knowing something about the writer (knowing their looks is really quite irrelevant though and doesn't affect my opinion - how could it?), I do give better feedback then. E.g. if I know I'm reading a novel from a Krav Maga instructor and someone knocks a foe out with a flying spinning head-kick, I can be fairly sure it was done in jest.
I've gotten to the point where I ignore the pictures/avatars, since so many people have pictures of other people (apparently famous ones, though I have no idea who they are ). I usually can't tell gender unless someone tells me point blank (and then I tend to forget later). Age - the only ones I've usually gotten right are the really young ones. With few exceptions, they have to get into their early twenties before they lose that "I'm a kid" voice in their posts. So my responses tend to be "non-denominational"
My concern would be that by mid-novel, will the reader really remember what happened in the prologue? Without context and connection to the characters and situations, with little to anchor the contents of the prologue to, what happens will have less relevance and will remain less memorable to the average reader. As an author, the big picture is seen and the connections known. As a reader just picking up the novel or previewing it online, especially if it's the first in a series or even the first by that author...then the prologue risks being a series of characters/places/events that don't make much sense when chapter 1 goes someplace else. The 'ah ha' moment, tying things together later in the novel with what happened in the prologue isn't guaranteed to occur...maybe even far from it, unless hints and reminders and building occur along the way...and if that can happen, in the context of the story's action and events, then is the prologue needed? That's not to say that there isn't a place for a prologue, and certainly the prologue in question. You're set on having the prologue, Albirich, and wasn't the question/concern. Your concern was 4000 or so words being too long. If you ask me, based on what's been discussed, the shorter it can be--the essence of what the reader will eventually need to know--should be presented as directly and succinctly as possible. Unfortunately, this can get in the way of effective and engaging storytelling. Thus, a difficult balance to strike. One can call readers who skip prologues 'ignorant readers' but they're some of the people who will decide to buy your book or not. The ones that will spread through reviews and word of mouth, if they liked your novel, or if they didn't, and readers are the ones that will determine if it is successful or not--even the 'ignorant' ones. Of course one could argue that the ignorant ones will preview and see the word prologue and not bother even getting the book (off the shelf or online). Of course that is a chunk of readers. In the end, a writer cannot please everyone. A writer has to write the novel they would like to see on the shelf, be satisfied with, and even proud of...and I'm beginning to ramble off topic again
Thirty days isn't nearly long enough to tell (but if you think that's a relatively long time, you're probably pretty young - or pretty damn old ).
I'm with @ChickenFreak. I do skip prologue from time to time as well, and this relates to the OP in that the length of the prologue has a bearing on how likely I am to skip it or find another book to buy. The shorter it is, the more likely I'll go ahead and read it. If it is an infodump or a bunch of boring backstory, I'm certainly not going to read it.
But isn't that based on how the writer wrote, rather than it being a prologue? Most readers would dump a book if it started out with boring backstory or infodumps, regardless of whether it's in the prologue or the first chapter. If a book starts out badly, there's no reason to think it will improve, so not reading further makes sense. There's no such logic if it merely has a prologue.
Good point. I usually have forgotten the prologue when I'm midway to the novel. On the other hand, the prologue in those cases has been good enough to hook me and it was relevant to me at that time, but when I'm half-done with the book, it's not that important anymore what was said in the prologue 'cause I'm wrapped up in the bit I'm reading. But sometimes I do go back and go like "oh now I get it!" I do sometimes wonder if it makes me a swollen-headed buffoon that I've chosen to disclose information about myself and my mug. I think it's funny when people take @Duchess-Yukine-Suoh for someone way older. Internet anonymity exposes some of the preconceptions we have of other people, show how we modify and adjust our behavior based on assumptions.
i've never fogotten a little bit of wisom that was posted on the bulletin board in my high school's office: 'they' say this and 'they' say that, 'they' make me wonder where i'm at... identify those who're known as 'they' and i'll have some respect for what 'they' say!
