1. Tzalosrex
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    Tzalosrex New Member

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    Reason for earth life on mars?

    Discussion in 'General Writing' started by Tzalosrex, Nov 27, 2011.

    Hello, new here, but thought maybe you could help me. I'm working on a low fantasy novel that takes place on ancient Mars. (aprox. 1 billion years ago) Originally it was going to be an outright fantasy world, but I used Mars as a base for the physical world, so.... Now, I'm trying to figure out some explanation/excuse of why my world is populated by humans and Earth lifeforms. Humans I can find an excuse for, but not the rest of the flora/fauna. Can anyone give me an idea on why the life on Mars would be translated to Earth? Alternately, I am thinking of placing the story in Earth's far future, which will make it easier to fit in. Any thoughts on the ancient Mars idea would be greatly appreciated.

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  2. FoxPaw
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    FoxPaw New Member

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    Well, people think that there might have once been water on Mars. Water is one of the key elements to life for animals and animals to both evolve and live. Water also helps with our weather and provides a liveable atmosphere for any being to live in.

    Maybe the water ran out/dried up or something like that, then they went to Earth to terraform it and live there? They brought plants and animals from Mars to Earth? Or vice versa if it's the other way around.
  3. Cacian
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    Cacian Banned

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    what is Ancient Mars?
    I think one good reason to have fauna/flora is because the environement is great source of food production when populated wit.
    For example Bees are fauna and one of their role is to produce honey which humans consume.
    I can think sheep for example , we use them for food and also for wool.
    Fauna/Flora is as important as humans on any planet.
    Mars with just humans and no fauna/flora does not work.
    So one of the reason why would humans are to leave Mars and populate Earth and if they wish to survive is down to Fauna and Flora.
  4. Kube
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    Kube New Member

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    Cacian, I think you're misunderstanding the question. He's talking about people being on Mars before Earth.

    As to the original question, I would agree with the poster that said have humans be on Mars originally and after destroying the environment they terraform Earth. To be honest, I don't think you need to worry about it.
  5. Cacian
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    Cacian Banned

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    Hi kube thank you for that. I totally misread it:redface:
  6. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    it's been done in books, short stories, and movies often enough that you shouldn't be worried about it...
  7. Tesoro
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    Tesoro Senior Member Contributor

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    I like this suggestion too.
  8. Tzalosrex
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    Tzalosrex New Member

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    Hey! Wow, I can't believe I've gotten so many responses! My problem, (I should've been specific) is really evolution. If I have Earth life on Mars (By "Ancient Mars" I just meant Mars, long ago), If I have Earth life on Mars, how do I reason away evolution on Earth? My original thought was an unexplained DNA transfer which somehow causes things to evolve in a similar way on Earth. Can I get away with that? You know, for the record, this actually has nothing to do with my story at all, I just tend to over-think everything about my stories.
  9. Prophetsnake
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    Prophetsnake New Member

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    Well, one current hypothesis is that life on earth came from life on Mars, which means we're all martians. The notion is that there was bacterial life on mars long before there was on earth, and that a chunk of mars was knocked into space and landed on earth complete with a few bacterial passengers. Those could possibly seeded life on earth. There is no evidence for thsi, though the rock that was found in antarctica about 18 years ago appeared to have a few bacterial burrows in it. It's all just an hypothesis, but it makes a plausible start to a story.
    The preimise coudl be something along the lines of development of life to something roughly resembling us is inevitable ( this is fiction, so a pox on anyone who tries to use this in the other thread) so the "seed" of bacteria from back then eventually prduces humans on both planets, but Mars first.
    It's an unlikely notion, but a lot of sci fi is! The premise could easily maintain verisimilitude. As crazy as you want to make it the storyline is still going to be more plausible than "Pearl Harbor" with Ben Affleck.
  10. Prophetsnake
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    Prophetsnake New Member

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    Here's a link to the rock they found.

    http://spider.seds.org/spider/Mars/Marsrock/marsrocks.html

    This find is a gift for your idea. You just have to have parallel evolution on the two planets. (not likely, but neither is star Trek) The martians would need some adaptations to survive on mars. ( differnt blood and temp regulatory systems able for colder temps, better lungs for the extremely sparse atmosphere, etc) If you want to write sci-fi, learn some more sci!
  11. Kube
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    Kube New Member

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    Maybe evolution didn't happen the way we think. Maybe the indigenous people here were evolving just fine until the martians got here and took over, killing all the natives. That would explain why there is a missing link between modern man and its predecessors.
  12. Prophetsnake
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    Prophetsnake New Member

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    There is no missing link. There is a considerable fossil record illustrating the rise of australopithicus ( nothing to do with australia) and homo species to us.

    Your idea would make a good story, though.
    or even a religion idiot hollywood celebs could join and piss their money away on!
  13. psychotick
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    psychotick Member

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    Hi,

    Life on Mars isn't so much of a problem as your time scale. A billion years is a very, very long time, and on Earth that was roughly seven hundred million years before the dinosaurs evolved. So even if there were humans and mammals on Mars, a billion years later they'd have evolved into something else.

    At a guess going any further then say fifty thousand years is going to be a problem. But at least thirty to fifty thousand years ago there were two potential human races, Neanderthal and Cro Magnon. Maybe the martians are actually the cro mags who came to Earth and wiped out the neanderthals.

    Cheers.
  14. Prophetsnake
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    Prophetsnake New Member

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    In fact, cro magnon were homo sapiens and homo sapiens are known to exist for at least 150,000 years and more likely go back twice that. cro magnon is not a species, it is just the first homo sapiens found in Europe.

    neanderthals are cousins, having followed a different evolutionary trail, but I believe there is some evidence for some interspecies breeding, though I am not sure how solid that is at the moment.

    You're right though, a billion years ago multi celled organisms were only just beginning to appear. The most sophisticated thing on earth was a simple worm. It wouldn;t stop him from creating an alternative timeline. some sort of seed. he'd ahve to ignore a LOT of evidence though!
  15. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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  16. Prophetsnake
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    Prophetsnake New Member

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    By the way, Ray Bradbury did all sorts of Martian scenarios. The Martian Chronicles has most of them. all short stories, some with a continuing them, others with a completely different premise. He had a couple in the Illustrated Man as well,I think. Anyhow, as far as I can recall, he didn't do your scenario, but his books might provide some inspiration. The martian chronicles is superb and way ahead of it's time.
  17. Tzalosrex
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    Tzalosrex New Member

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    Hi, again! I was using the "1 billion years ago", because of some theories I've found that Mars had large amounts of surface water UNTIL that time. Also, the advent of more complex life on Earth seemed to fit with my idea that a dying mars somehow "started" life, (really just kick-started it). The billion years also gives me some room to excuse shifted geography and the lack of obvious signs of life and civilization on the modern day planet. My Mars (never actually called Mars, of course) is actually far more Earth-like than the real life planet. (I think it may occupy a slightly different orbit. It's "death" came rather quickly through a close encounter either with a Tyche-like planet, or Nemesis-like star:)
    Anyway, as I said, the life on Earth has absolutely nothing to do with this particular story, which takes place a couple of thousand years before The End. I just over-think my background stuff.
    Oh, I'm embarrassed to admit that I've never read The Martian Chronicles. I've read a bit of Bradbury, but there is something in his writing style I don't love. I think I'll give him another chance, though.
    Thinking about my dilemma (and your comments), I think I may have to drop the idea that this world is really part of history and relegate it to either a parallel universe or an outright fantasy/dreamworld. Thanks, All!
  18. Prophetsnake
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    Prophetsnake New Member

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    Yeah, if you start from scratch and use Earth and mars for inspiration, you will have a freer hand.
    you have to remember, though. Bradbury is one of the proto sci-fi writers! Leading edge. I haven't read the martian chronicles in a long time, but it is amongst his best.
  19. astrostu
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    astrostu New Member

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    Scientifically/astronomically, there are issues with what you've laid out. Mars has been pretty bone-dry since 3.0-3.5 billion years ago, around the same time period as the absolute earliest evidence for any sort of life on Earth. The most water was likely there sometime between 3.6 and 4.0 billion years ago, though we can't tell much of anything on the surface before ~4.1-4.2 billion years ago. If you want this to be Mars, that is a significant problem in your story. Your first few posts seem to suggest this, but your latest one seems to suggest you're just using it for a model.

    Having any sort of encounter with a gas giant planet that's in the Oort Cloud (your Tyche) or Nemesis would also have to overcome an enormous amount of data against it in the more recent solar system (any time since ~4ish billion years ago), not the least of which is the long-term dynamical stability of the asteroid belt which could not be the case if you have a massive object swinging through.

    This is where I would ask what the root purpose is for having the setup you propose so that we could then see if we can accomplish it without making scientists unhappy.
  20. Thom
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    The Event Group series by David Goleman, has something similar in the newest book, 'Legacy.' Only it's present day and dealing with evidence from a past catastrophic, interplanetary event.

    A likely motive for seeding a neighboring planet such as Earth, with what would have then been Martian life, would be the cooling of the planet's core. Mars' core is cool, and now absent of any geologic activity such as volcanism. A consequence of a cool center is that there is no magnetic field to protect the planet from solar rays. Over time, these 'solar winds' will strip an atmosphere down to nothing and make life as we know it impossible. A cool center will also mean a cold planet, hence the freezing of all water to the poles, minus that which hadn't evaporated straight into space.

    In a somewhat related topic, that's one thing I haven't had any author explain about Terra-forming Mars. Somehow you have to reheat the core in order for that 'forming to keep hold.

    But for your book, if these Martians are advanced enough to realize what's happening to their world, they might have the capacity to save as much life there as possible - including their own - and transport it to their new home. Earth.
  21. Tzalosrex
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    Tzalosrex New Member

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    Well, I want to state again that my version of Mars is really more fantasy than science. I like to try to keep my fiction as realistic as I can, but I'm not going to let a little think like scientific fact stop me. :) There is water on mars now, just mostly frozen and there is some evidence that there is still liquid water under the surface. As to the time-frame, I've read some theories that Mars may have had larger amounts of surface water as little as 1 billlion years ago, that's what really brought about my time-frame. As for the Tyche/Nemesis bit, I just meant that I was thinking of using something like that to explain the "death" of the planet. I never liked the "slow drying out of the world" that some authors have used. Though I was set to abandon the idea that my world was really Mars, I think now I'm going to leave it vague. Maybe it's just a parallel universe, maybe real unknown (unexplained) history. I've been looking at some of those "Mars anomaly" type sites, and though I do NOT believe in Martian civilizations, there are so many interesting ideas too build on. Heard of the "Doorway on Mars"? Estimated to be 1000 km high. I think I know why that door was carved and let's hope Earth's future explorers stay out of there. ;)

    Edit: Oh, Prophetsnake, I have started reading Bradbury's Martian stories and they are great! It's been a long time since I'd read any of his short stories. Tastes change I suppose! Thanks! And thanks to everyone in this thread! It has caused me to look at things from different angles, which is always good.
  22. astrostu
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    astrostu New Member

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    In the end, it's your story and it's science fiction. I just caution you that in science fiction, you also should not forget the science. Yes, you can break the rules if you really need to and if it makes sense and you've thought it out. But - and here's a simple example in a moment - you shouldn't just break them because you don't like them and the breakage has no point in the plot.

    For example, in your story if you mention in passing that the asteroid belt is a destroyed planet and then move on from it - it wasn't at all important to your story, you just mentioned it in passing - that's a big red flag that you were just lazy about it. (There is no where near enough mass in the asteroid belt for it to be a planet, and tidal effects from Jupiter would prevent any planet from forming there.) If you're interested in a slightly longer "discussion" of this subject, you can check out my blog post about the third Transformers movie and all the lunar science they royally messed up for absolutely no plot reason. Another example is a "supernova threatening the galaxy" in the last Star Trek movie -- no, supernovae have a relatively limited effect and can't "threaten the galaxy" and if they had bothered to consult an astronomer, the astronomer could have (a) told them that and (b) come up with an actual scientifically plausible event that would have had the same effect for their plot point.
  23. Raki
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    Raki New Member

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    I think the documentary Through the Wormhole touches on this idea. It was quite long so I don't remember all the little bits of it, but it did have one section relating to Mars and the idea that we are aliens on Earth. You may want to check it out.
  24. UberNoodle
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    UberNoodle New Member

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    I was going to make some snide remark that the reason for actual life on Mars is just that a certain remake of a certain British series got far too literal. But I decided not to.

    Anyway, if you want to skirt with the 'Chariots of the Gods' conspiracies, Mars was the first planet that the Type III civilization which seeded the Earth tried it out on. For reasons you may elaborate on in your story, that first attempt didn't work out. Alternatively, perhaps Mars was just the staging ground for the main act which was Earth. I guess that's what other posters have said.
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