riots in Turkey

Stay safe Madhoca.

No worries...Just a luke-warm discussion here.

Thanks erebh for sending Madhoca and the rest of us pertinent info.

 

I'm safe, Michael. I think it's madhoca you meant to say that to.

 

Yep!

 

This really is NOT a Turkish Spring. Believe me, no one is after a revolution or overthrowing of the govnt. It's just ordinary citizens wanting the government to stop walking all over them.

I've just got back from helping my friend--the front of her shop was damaged but fortunately none of the stock was spoilt or taken. It's heartbreaking to see the damage in the centre of town caused by groups from outside who infiltrated last night but people have started to clear up. I think there will be protests again tonight but not on the same scale.

I was horrified by the BBC World Service report which consisted of one ill-briefed reporter speaking to a couple of old guys in a cafe who support the govnt, all saying how the protesters are behaving badly etc etc. What is wrong with the BBC? Since when was it so blinded by its absurd ideologies that it warps everything to suit its crazy world view? Why do they have such a love affair with an old-fashioned, conservative bully? The CNN has better coverage, and CNN Turk best of all but it's in Turkish.

The President gave a speech a few hours ago which diffused tension slightly. I could say more what I think about the PM's speech (before he got on a plane to leave on a trip) but I don't feel free to, in fact I've probably said more than is wise already.

 

War has a way of spreading strife to neighboring countries.

So sad to see it anywhere and even more pathetic here in the USA with news ignoring the Americans along the border who have been overrun by the drug cartels.

 

No, this is an internal clash of ideologies, not to do with any external situation.

The Daily Telegraph seems to have fairly good information, although it's not very up to date.
This guy is interesting and I agree with him:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100219899/let-turkey-into-the-eu-now/

The stuff on most blogs etc is pretty misleading. I know how it happens and I've heard my students speaking this morning--a lot of rumour and random pictures passed on from dubious sources. As far as I know only one person has actually died so far, and that was not because of the police, it was because the driver of a car found herself surrounded by demonstrators and pressed the gas pedal instead of the brake (the Telegraph is wrong on this point, it wasn't a taxi). There is someone in intensive care as well who is critical, the rest are broken arms etc not life threatening. Six people have suffered damage to their eyes which is severe.

It's pathetic the confusion of information. Why don't the press just go to a reputable source like CNN Turk? But of course, too many facts don't fit in with the fixed agenda on Turkey. I tell you, it's depressing. It's only 3.5 hours by plane from Turkey to London, for God's sake. It makes me intensely suspicious of coverage of world events generally...

 

I thought of that when I saw DN's headline. It's not helpful for us to think all the unrest in the area is the same. I'm learning a lot from you.

We get that here in Seattle on a minor scale. For the last few years troublemakers show up at rallies, breaking windows mostly, damaging cars. I'm never sure what those people are thinking.

The coverage here in the US is pitiful. That's why I go to Democracy Now for foreign coverage. Despite their misguided article title, the coverage was good. They had in depth interviews today with people in Turkey knowledgeable about the events.

The full transcript at Democracy Now is up.

Are talking about the Prime Minister when you say President?

Koray is the professor they interviewed.

Nazan is one of the protestors.

 

This was interesting: Turkish intelligence looking into 'foreign links' to Taksim protests: PM

It's a tad contradictory to say only half the country supports the current administration then suggest the protests are all due to outside influence. But it also suggests that like so many other countries in the world, if success only benefits some of the people, you can't expect the rest to feel like things are going well.

 

Not aware of an event in history where ideology and external forces are mutually exclusive. History shows where one country is at war, the cancer spreads and Turkey, of all places, does not stand outside history.

Try to imagine what the current leaders in Turkey are faced with, what they know and we don't. The world is a dangerous place and Turkey lies next to the oven.

Are you saying there are no radical freak-a-zoids in your nation that want violence and chaos or that you think they're just watching on the sidelines on this one?

 

"We can barely keep them at home"--that's downright hilarious. He generally gets a rally together when he a) buses people into town with no expense spared or b) he goes to the little towns where his minions have been busy doing publicity beforehand. If they wanted to come on the streets, they would, no one is stopping them, least of all him.
The Prime Minister is Erdogan, the President of Turkey who gave the slightly better speech is Abdullah Gul.

@michael o: sorry, I thought you meant the war in Syria or somewhere outside the country was a factor in this. It isn't an issue in this particular protest wave. Some destabilising elements are no doubt trying to crank up the protests but the original spark didn't come from them.

 

Turkey has always been strategically located and the freak-a-zoids know that just as well as you do. No doubt the controls are harsh coupled with the economic mess Turkey and the rest of the world is in. I would guess the powers that be have a full plate and odds are it will get worse so stay safe.

Just wondering, can women hold public office in Turkey and if they can do you know any?

Men built the world but women civilized it. I think that's the core of the problem in the Mid East. Women are powerless and a world of barbaric shit prevails.

 

She already answered half of that question.

 

Did we say shopping mall? Silly us, we meant mosque.

Last resort: Building mosque in Taksim

Generating economic benefit to some, that's how I was interpreting the issues as well.

This isn't Turkish Spring. This is Occupy Taksim.

 

What are "freak-a-zoids"?

 

Freaky people that all hang-out together and dress alike.

 

Any evil creature...KKK = FAZ. Gang Bangers = FAZ. Muslims who cut heads off with steak knives = FAZ. Child molesters = FAZ and the list goes on.

The modern day real life vampires who prey on civilization and humans but nothing special is needed to kill them.

 

Yes, women can hold the highest office in Turkey--we had a woman Prime Minister not so long ago named Tansu Ciller. Women have had the vote here since 1926. There are many women in the legal profession, and running big business corps as well as in the army and police. And there is a woman Rector of one of the two huge state unis in my city. The head of my dept is a woman.

 

I can't believe people still believe the 'news' and BBC are no less corrupt than CNN, Fox, AL Jazeera, SKY and 99% of other 'news' corporations.

They are all toeing the party line, Erdogan's party line. Why? Because Turkey control a lot of access to the Middle East, at least from Europe. How many NATO and US bases are in Turkey? Why are trade embargos against Iran lifted and extended for Turkey alone. How is it the chemicals that Erdogan has proof of being used in Syria are the same chemicals his stormtroopers have been using on his people?

If you want news, don't watch the 'news'. Slowly around the world, people are watching BBC News, then looking out their window and seeing something completely different like our friend Madhoca here and slowly around the world people are realising that it's just one huge propaganda war. We saw it first hand in the North of Ireland throughout the 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. While I was too young for the 60s and 70s, the 30 year rule, where govts are obliged to reveal documents and records from 30 years previous, are now showing the lies told by BBC and ITV 'news'. People in the UK right now are watching how the BBC and almost every major newspaper lied about the 96 Liverpool fans who were killed in order to save the reputations of a few politicians and higher up cops.

We have other members here who have seen their countries the victims of the 'Western Allies' propaganda machines - it's about time everybody woke up to this machine.

 

What a terrible thing to say about the parents when you don't have any confirmation about why/how they were there. Being a parent myself I would say chances of a parent knowingly putting his/her kid's life in danger are very very less whatever the reason may be.

Yes, police are also human and we need to see their side of the story as well, but I know police can be brutal too because I live in such a place (google "manipur police and army brutality"). When a person lay in front of a tank saying "over my death body" you see propaganda, manipulation, news coverage, but I see deep feelings of hurt at being disrespected by their own country, hear voices finally shouting and no longer a whisper, and above all I see a last attempt to fight for dignity as a human being. But of course, these feelings will be very hard to understand by someone who can expect help from the police when his/her cat is stuck on the roof. Asking for understanding of the police's position is fine, but it should not become an outright rejection of the protester's position. It kind of defeats your purpose because your views also become very much one sided.

 

How exactly does that work, erebh? Does someone in the US government give the editor of CNN a call and say, hey, we're on Erdogan's side?

I realize you are not in the US, but is CNN on the side of the party in power here or the party out of power?

The quality of broadcast news couldn't be much lower, but I don't think we agree on the mechanisms behind that failure.

Do you have a source for this claim?

 

You nailed it right there!

Who owns the airwaves? Who controls the corporations? Who controls the news?

 

That doesn't answer my question. I asked how the mechanics of it worked. Does the editorial staff at CNN talk with someone in the State Department? How can CNN be sure there aren't any secret deals going on between Turkey's opposition party?

I have a tendency to edit for a few minutes after I post so you may have read my comments before the final edit. I'll try to leave this one alone after I hit 'post'.

 

Are you a fan of Aaron Sorkin? The West Wing or the Newsroom?

The Newsroom explains exactly what goes on, how the news is "chosen", who's agenda is at play.

 

Excerpt from presstv.ir posted just an hour ago - read my preious comments on Erdogan being Obama's puppet and Turkey's obsession with joining the EU, long before this presstv post

In the past week, Turk media reported the arrest of several members of the Al-Qaeda-linked al-Nusra front who were armed with chemical weapons materials. It was reported that the terror group was on its way to carry out an atrocity in the southern Turkey city of Adana.

The presumed purpose of that bomb plot was to create a “false flag” event that would be blamed on Syrian government forces, thereby giving NATO a pretext to mount a direct military intervention in Syria. That intervention was top of Erdogan’s agenda when he visited US President Barack Obama in Washington last month.

The same murderous ploy was used on 11 May - five days before Erdogan’s trip to Washington - when two car bombs exploded in the Turkish border town of Reyhanli in southern Hatay Province, which killed more than 50 people, mostly Turkish citizens. Reliable reports say that massacre was the work of al Nusra and that Turk military intelligence may have colluded with the killers. Predictably, Erdogan blamed the Reyhanli atrocity on Syria, without a shred of evidence.

But the Turk prime minister’s intrigues are wearing transparently thin. An increasing number of Turkish people know that the suffering in Syria and Turkey is a result of his egotistical machinations for aggrandizing regional power at the behest of his NATO masters.

Maybe Erdogan was calculating that by bending over backwards to please NATO in its regional regime-change strategy, he would secure for himself world stature and a long-sought-after place for his country as a member of the European Union.

Full piece http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/06/04/307161/erdogans-antisyria-plots-backfire/

 

Are you going to answer or keep dodging? You want me to go watch reruns of the West Wing? I don't have HBO and I don't get my reality from TV dramas.

Just answer the question, I don't need a thesis. How does it work? How did the State Department or the Obama administration control the coverage of Turkey's riots over at CNN or Al Jazeera?