1. ohmyrichard
    Offline

    ohmyrichard Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Messages:
    443
    Likes Received:
    9

    taking into consideration the fact that ...?

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by ohmyrichard, Nov 25, 2008.

    Hi,everyone. In the letter I wrote to my friend today, I said:

    Taking into consideration the fact that the average working Chinese could only earn a monthly salary of less than 100 yuan at that time, I will say that I lived a decent life during my college years.

    But I was not and am not sure of the sentence structure "taking into consideration the fact that...". I should admit I have never come across this structure in my reading. Is it allowed in English? If not, would you please tell me how to improve the whole sentence above? Oh,yeah, right now I think of using "Considering(that)" instead. But still please help me improve the whole sentence and make it sound natural to native speakers.

    Thanks.

    Richard
     
  2. eclecticism7
    Offline

    eclecticism7 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2008
    Messages:
    13
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Somewhere in America
    It sounds just fine the way it is to me, but I don't think it's used often, even though it is technically correct. I would say if you're not writing to a native speaker of English, "considering that" would probably be better, because fewer words are usually more easily understood.
     
  3. ohmyrichard
    Offline

    ohmyrichard Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Messages:
    443
    Likes Received:
    9
    Thanks, eclecticism7. Then how about the rest of my sentence? Is there any room for improvement in it? Do you feel comfortable with the rest of it?
    Thanks.
    Richard
     
  4. Cogito
    Offline

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    35,935
    Likes Received:
    2,043
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    is just bloated with unnecessary wordiness. It can be replaced by the single word Considering, and be the better for dropping the fat.
     
  5. Dcoin
    Offline

    Dcoin Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2008
    Messages:
    279
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    NYC
    I would add something to Chinese...like "Chinese worker", or "Chinese citizen".
     
  6. Rei
    Offline

    Rei Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2008
    Messages:
    7,869
    Likes Received:
    32
    Location:
    Kingston
    Technically it's not wrong, but it's awkward because there are too many words. I would word it:

    Considering the fact that the average Chinese worker could only earn a monthly salary of less than 100 yuan at that time, I would say that I lived a decent life during my college years.
     
  7. NaCl
    Offline

    NaCl Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,855
    Likes Received:
    58
    Conversational English is often bloated with unnecessary wording. In the context of a letter to a friend, your wording does not "feel" wrong to me in any way.

    Obviously, if you were writing a literary document, you would prefer to choose more compact sentence structure like:

    "The average working Chinese, at that time, could only earn a monthly salary of less than 100 yuan, so I will say that I lived a decent life during my college years."

    Your original sentence uses an awkward qualifying phrase, and a conclusion that is dependent on the preface. By using the word "so" to present the conclusion, and simplifying the qualifying information in the opening of the sentence, you can say the same thing in brief form.

    Again, I see nothing wrong with the conversational format used in the letter.
     
  8. Emerald
    Offline

    Emerald Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Dublin
    "I had more money in college than your average Chinaman."
     
  9. NaCl
    Offline

    NaCl Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,855
    Likes Received:
    58
    Can't speak for your country, but the term "Chinaman" is considered derogatory in my area of California where Chinese immigrants were employed in slave labor conditions during the Gold Rush years...they were referred to as "Chinamen". Today, we would say "Chinese man", or in the case of this discussion, perhaps "Chinese student".
     
  10. ohmyrichard
    Offline

    ohmyrichard Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Messages:
    443
    Likes Received:
    9
    Thanks for explaining the origin of the term "Chinaman" to Emerald. If Emerald reads more American history books, he will know what life his ancestors and my ancestors working in the USA lived during the Gold Rush years and the construction of the transcontinental railway and will surely know more about the world.
     
  11. ManicParroT
    Offline

    ManicParroT Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2008
    Messages:
    204
    Likes Received:
    2
    As Cogito pointed out, considering.

    The best essay I wrote in undergrad was probably about 750 words. Brevity is a virtue. Wordiness is not.
     
  12. ohmyrichard
    Offline

    ohmyrichard Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Messages:
    443
    Likes Received:
    9
    Thanks,ManicParroT.
     
  13. Emerald
    Offline

    Emerald Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2008
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    4
    Location:
    Dublin
    Hah, you do not want to get me started about the whole PC thing. I'm not PC, I'll never be PC, it's just not gonna happen. I'm morally opposed to the whole idea of countering racism by completely ignoring diversity.

    Chinaman is a man from China. It's logical. It makes sense. Just because a couple of arsehole Californians used it in a derogative manner a couple hundred years ago doesn't mean anything to me. If someone actually from China is upset by it, I'll apologise, but I'm not censoring myself without a good reason.

    I could think of at least fifty words or phrases you use everyday which would be offensive to somebody.

    The idea that someone would censor someone else for no reason other than that they think someone might be offended because it has some connection to something dodgy that happened in the past... It's ridiculous.


    I suppose it's different for Americans, though. Foreign nationals always seem to have more extreme views than the people who actually live there. People are more volatile about the honour of their countries when it's the only token of their national identity they have left.

    Still, this is the internet, not America.
     
  14. NaCl
    Offline

    NaCl Contributing Member Contributor

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2008
    Messages:
    1,855
    Likes Received:
    58
    Emerald,

    I would not expect someone from another country to know much about American history, hence my attempt to educate you about your terminology.

    In addition, I am not a PC person either. However, your theory about the minimal significance of "...something dodgy that happened in the past..." is simply wrong. The member who posted this OP lives and teaches in China. As you can see from his reply to my post, he is VERY aware of the treatment of his fellow Chinese (including the derogatory reference to "Chinamen") during the building of the Transcontinental railroad. I am simply offering knowledge for you to use at your discretion.
     
  15. ohmyrichard
    Offline

    ohmyrichard Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Messages:
    443
    Likes Received:
    9
    Thanks a lot. Your revision reads much better than my original sentence. But I doubt whether there would be some difference between the two. I originally intended to have "Taking into consideration" to better relate this sentence to the previous one. So, if we use two coordinate clauses, will the close relation between the two sentences be weakened to some extend, though there is nothing wrong with your revision itself and even this revision reads better if we do not consider its relationship to what goes before it?
    Looking forward to your reply.
    Thanks.
    Richard
     
  16. ohmyrichard
    Offline

    ohmyrichard Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Messages:
    443
    Likes Received:
    9
    Thanks for your further explanation. But it was not my intention to cause another verbal fighting. If Emerald does not know this part of history, he is not to blame.But I don't think it is sensible to try his hardest to find an excuse for his unintentional mistake. Let's calm down and move forward. Let's just laugh it off.
    Thanks again for answering my question and offering help.
    Richard
     
  17. ohmyrichard
    Offline

    ohmyrichard Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Messages:
    443
    Likes Received:
    9
    If you do not know anything about this part of early US history, you are not to blame. The then Irish and Chinese immigrants and temporarily-hired farmhands and railway workers were both discriminated by the then mainstream America. To my knowledge, even today Irish Americans and Chinese Americans are not highly respected in the United States. And I'm afraid Irish people and Chinese people are not highly respected throughout the world,either. From reading history books, I realize that we need to respect ourselves and each other and then we will win respect from other nations. I hear the Irish economy has developed at a great rate in recent years. You may know that China is also committed to develop its economy and feeding its huge population. Let's stop calling others names. We should never be biased against or for others. It is insensible to try so hard to find an excuse for an unintentional mistake.
    In my opinion, although the internet is a virtual world, the language we use here is no different from what we use in other situations. Let's all calm down and move forward. I am always interested in knowing more about other cultures and knowing more about this world.
     
  18. ohmyrichard
    Offline

    ohmyrichard Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2008
    Messages:
    443
    Likes Received:
    9
    By the way, do you mean "politically correct" by PC?
     
  19. kehl
    Offline

    kehl Member

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2008
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Colorado
    Emerald told a joke and it was funny. He didn't mean it to be offensive and therefor did not become offensive until someone said it was offensive. If someone calls me a "cracker" in the context of a silly joke with no real intention of harm then i'll laugh it off.

    I can't wait for the days when we're all just called Humanoids and any suggestion that we're different in any shape, form, or way is a punishable by law. No longer is offensive humor allowed because we're all so delicate.

    Sorry I didn't mean to take this off track but it seems the question has already been answered and I can't stand political correctness to the extent it is.
     

Share This Page