1. KuroOokami
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    KuroOokami Banned

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    Traditional Fantasy

    Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by KuroOokami, Mar 4, 2012.

    I did a search a didn't quite find what I wanted answers to.

    But I am curious has traditional fantasy kind of fallen by the waist side?

    With so many RPG games and such - D & D for example - on these particular subjects is writing a novel when someone can buy themselves the latest D&D patch and play out their own "story" just a waste of time?

    And by traditional fantasy I mean elves, orcs, dragons, knights, etc.
     
  2. BFGuru
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    BFGuru Active Member

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    I thought orcs were a specific Tolkein thing.
     
  3. KuroOokami
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    KuroOokami Banned

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    He made it popular, and took it from Old English. The original use probably originated from Beowulf.
     
  4. James Berkley
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    James Berkley Banned

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    Maybe e it’s just so over done people don’t want to read another. Personally I don’t like fantasy unless it’s not traditional.
     
  5. JPGriffin
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    JPGriffin Senior Member

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    What I think you're getting at, if I'm not mistaken, is if people will read it, and if it's, in a business sense, a waste of time. Business-focused, it really depends on the writer, how he/she makes the story. As Berkley above me said, traditional fantasy has been run into the ground, though I hate to say it- every so often a writer will come and scrape together a story out of the rubble, but those authors are rare. Non-traditional fantasy has a different appeal, where it removes the boundaries of traditional fantasy, allowing for much more creative stories, and a whole new approach which, while it can be hit-or-miss, can turn a profit.

    From a creative writing sense, of COURSE it's not a waste of time! Writing a story lets YOU set the rules, lets YOU choose the cast, and lets YOU decide what's going to happen. With an RPG, you can change the story, but only to such a degree. When writing, you can turn the world upside-down, give the plot a 180 degree turn and still have more room for creativity. Don't get me wrong, an RPG's a great social-based storyline game, but it doesn't compare to making your own.
     
  6. JackElliott
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    JackElliott Senior Member

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    Yeah. Left side, specifically, just above the love handle.
     
  7. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    What the previous poster is pointing out less than clearly is that the expression is "fallen by the wayside," not "fallen by the waist side."
     
  8. KuroOokami
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    KuroOokami Banned

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    Actually that's what you think but thanks for the supposed correction, given that everyone else got what I meant it is rather unneeded. I was making a jest on my "waist" as it were, in a similar fashion to Jack on the love handle bit.

    If you want exact sayings, I'll take a snippet from a much larger quote in Silence is Golden [Thomas Carlyle 1831]


    As to JPGriffin yes that was what I was getting at. I had a feeling the traditional sort of fantasy had become much like flogging a dead horse and that the concept of non-traditional fantasy allowed for more growth, ability and expression rather than what has been used [the same concept, worlds, races] that have been employed before.
     
  9. JPGriffin
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    JPGriffin Senior Member

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    Have you considered urban fantasy? Just a thought, but it really does give you both a chance to connect with readers AND still incorperate creatures, magic, et cetera. It's a fairly new approach, or at least hasn't been publicized too much. A few examples: Percy Jackson and the Olympians, which I personally didn't enjoy too much, but it sold well in the end. Then there's... I can't remember exactly, but it's the series that features Nicolas Flamel, I'm pretty sure the first book's entitled The Alchemyst. That one was pretty good in my opinion, a few things that I was shaking my head at, but that's just me.
     
  10. Elgaisma
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    Elgaisma Contributing Member Contributor

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    This year the Harper Collins sci-fi/fantasy imprint is wanting only classic/epic fantasy for their open doors month with the intention to make it their next big thing next year I would say no it hasn't fallen by the wayside.
     
  11. Nakhti
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    Nakhti Banned

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    Uh... are you kidding? I mean, you must have heard of a little urban fantasy series called TWILIGHT? If not, surely you have been living in a cave in middle earth for the last 5 or 6 years.

    And then you go and name one of the second most popular selling urban fantasy series... seriously, are you not getting the idea that urban fantasy is pretty well known? In fact I would say if anything, it's this genre that is wearing thin, with teen vampire and werewolf fatigue setting in the moment R Patz donned a quiff and sparkly CGI skin....
     
  12. CheddarCheese
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    CheddarCheese Contributing Member

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    Actually Nakhti, Urban Fantasy is a newer concept compared to other forms of fantasy. You mention urban fantasies like Twilight (which is, in my opinion, a terrible example) have been around for 5 years, and conclude it's been long enough. Yet traditional fantasies have been around for 70-100+ years. JPGriffin is stating that Urban Fantasies are relatively new compared to the traditional type.

    In addition, urban fantasy does not automatically mean vampires and werewolves (they're overused thanks to the 'Twilight' market). There are multitudes of other fantasy elements that are applicable in a modern setting.
     
  13. Nakhti
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    Nakhti Banned

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    Ok, newer is a relative term. That's not what JPGriffin said. He said 'fairly new approach' - I guess it depends on your perception of the word 'fairly'. A lot of people would say that urban fantasy is not new anymore. Fads that have become this popluar are by definition in their 'high' phase, and can only come down.


    Yes, but the popularity of things like Twilight, and the numerous spins off in both film and TV, have contributed to 'vampire fatique' - and that in turn leads to 'urban fantasy fatique' for all those who equate the two. Maybe that's not entirely fair, but it's what happens. Bandwagons have to be jumped on early, before they get too crowded.
     
  14. JPGriffin
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    JPGriffin Senior Member

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    First, I'd like to make a point that Twilight, while it does contain fantasy elements, is MUCH better suited to be given a "Horror Romance" title over Urban Fantasy. So no, I don't consider Twilight, or any other book in the series, to be anything BUT that. (In fact, I remember seeing a genre title of "Teen Paranormal Romance" in a Barnes and Nobel, no joke).

    Second, everything has their peak, which is specifically what I was saying. Traditional fantasy had its peak with Lord of the Rings, and people jumped on after that and eventually the genre died down. Now, fantasy's starting to die down, and other genres are starting to claim the gap left by fantasy writers.

    Third, I meant, by fairly new, as in contemporary writing, within the last 10 or 15 years. "Contemporary," "Fairly New," and "Newer" are all relative- maybe that needed a little more explaining, but beyond the examples I gave before, there aren't too many other ones that have made their mark. There are Urban Fantasy novels out there, and if I had read them then I'd gladly cite them, but the area's disappointed me a bit so far- maybe the OP (or any writer here, for that matter) can change that. Besides, writing needs new, revolutionary ideas. As of now, Urban Fantasy has yet to be... for lack of a better word, "monopolized;" it's a field that hasn't been defined, which means infinite possibilities.
     
  15. Nakhti
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    Nakhti Banned

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    Well, quibbles over genre are even older than traditional fantasy - they go back to 5th BC Greece, so the paranormal teen romance/urban fantasy argument will never be resolved. You say potato, I say... well potato. I don't think anyone actually says po-tah-to, do they?? :D
     
  16. Tim Ryan
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    Tim Ryan New Member

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    I will say this, I agree that the traditional roles and races have been over played and may be dead. However, I feel that a good storyline that grabs the reader and brings them into your created world can still captivate an audience and intrigue a reader to want more. I agree that using the traditional eleves, orcs, dwarves and man as set species can be humdrum and "ordinary", but a world cleverly created with newer species that closely resemble the afore mentioned races can be refreshing and new enough to spur an interest. That is at least the direction my book is headed.
     

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