Where is the line?

Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by Reximus, Aug 15, 2010.

  1. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    97
    Which is why I don't need to agree with you:)

    I am not in anyway suggesting what happened to the people who were executed because of fear is right far from it. However I do not automatically reject any of the ideas or accept them.
     
  2. TWErvin2

    TWErvin2 Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2006
    Messages:
    3,374
    Likes Received:
    1,629
    Location:
    Ohio, USA
    Be consistent where you can. If you're altering the garb he wears for the wedding, will the garb of others he meets be strictly historically accurate?
     
  3. Islander

    Islander Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    59
    Location:
    Sweden
    Thank you for that word. Now I finally understand where A.E. vanVogt got the word Silkie from in his novel by the same name.
     
  4. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    97
    Think that maybe the scandinavian form - The Shetland Islands were part of norway at one point. I know there used to be some that wanted to go back
     
  5. Islander

    Islander Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    1,539
    Likes Received:
    59
    Location:
    Sweden
    Back to being selkies, I presume :)
     
  6. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    97
    LOL do you read any Alannah Knight? She rights detective novels set in Victorian Scotland? She has the selkie legends in there - she is the classic example of a not great writing style but fabulous stories:) Actually for OP she is good example of how to intertwine legend and history in a story
     
  7. Reximus

    Reximus New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    I see. The line before the novel starts would be something along the lines of "Please note that this novel is purely fantasy fiction and since it does not take place in any historical period is not meant to be historically accurate in any way."

    But like I said I changed the setting to be a totally fictional one. Still with castles, a king, vampires, gargoyles, demons etc. The time and the history would be unique. Even the world, the country, the castles all will be fictional. I did this to make it easier to write, not having to worry as much with accuracies. At least to an extent. Obviously no cell phones lol. All fictional. So would it still matter if he wears a tux given that it is no longer set in medieval Europe? Speculating as to how close this fictional world would be would be if compared to the real world. I would say anywhere between the medieval ages in Europe to the late 1800's or early 1900's. Cobbled to dirt streets, castles in the distance with a king. Carriages marching in the street and knights, fancy dressed nobles with cains and peasents working the fields. So it would be just speculation as to what time it is if compared, if the castles are called "shadowheim and warhauser." The kings name is "Baselhef." (these are just made up.) and the countries name was lets say Mythania.

    Do you guys think people would still be annoyed if the main character weared a tux or a swallowtail suit in this fictional world? Have I solved my situation or does it still need work?

    If not can someone link me to a website that could list some of these clothes, or list some clothes themselves? Tunic and cloak doesn't sound like it would fit XD. You would think finding this would be easy, but I'm having little luck myself on a search engine since its such a specific question.
     
  8. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    97
    Wikipedia does a good basic idea of each centuries clothing its all you need for this.

    It might be worth you reading Lian Hearne and Alannah Knight's books. Lian Hearne tackles your situation like you do by making a fictional Japanese type country. Alannah Knight sets her dectective novels in a real place and time, but is not afraid of incorporating the local legends.

    Even I would find the tux difficult to take, wonder when the Eton uniform changed to the swallow tail idea hmm. A lot of people are less forgiving than I am with stories. Despite studying particle physics I can sit and watch Numb3rs without complaining about the screwy maths lol and my archaeology training doesn't prvent me watching something like Bonekickers and just enjoying the story, however I know people with less knowledge in the subjects who will sit and whinge all the way through similar shows.

    EDIT: The Eton Uniform used a tailcoat for the first time in 1820
     
  9. HorusEye

    HorusEye Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,211
    Likes Received:
    48
    Location:
    Denmark
    Most classic fairytales are set in our world while incorporating obvious fantasy. Read anything collected by the brothers Grimm. They have everything from witches to donkeys playing musical instruments, and we're all fine by that because it's an age old genre. What these stories don't have, however, is anything invented long after the time of writing, like Minis and tuxedos, and by introducing that you'll be breaking the bounds of the genre universe. Maybe you'll get away with it, or maybe you won't. Depends on how well you write it. But most readers will (hopefully) be aware that tuxedos aren't time typical of medieval europe, so if you slip it in, they'll notice.

    Another thing, just in case you weren't aware... In medieval europe it wasn't that unusual for people to wear the same set of clothing for a long period of time. In fact it was more unusual not to. Regular folk usually only had one set and wore it for half a lifetime. Hard to imagine that in our shopaholic era.
     
  10. Reximus

    Reximus New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    I see what you mean by how you defined fantasy. How talking donkies are okay but tuxedo's aren't. You can see how at first glance I couldn't understand since talking donkies are way more out of place in medieval ages then tuxedo's. Which is why I thought it was fine for me to put them in. But now I see how when talking about fantasy, the tuxedo being not a feature of fantasy unlike a talking donkey means that it being out of place matters.
     
  11. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    97
    Fantasy is using what could happen, a tux didn't happen you'd have to have him like Dr Who to get away with it,
     
  12. Reximus

    Reximus New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've been looking at different types of bridegroom clothing and the most romantic and..possibly recognizable would be a surcoat. Although, do you guys think most people reading the novel would know what a surcoat is? Of course I would describe it. However it would be good if most people would already know what it looks like which would give them a better picture as to how romantic it is. Since it relates to knighthood and adventuring etc.
     
  13. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    97
    Describe it in a sumptious fabric and colour that will give the image, most people have a vague idea of a surcoat.
     
  14. Reximus

    Reximus New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Do you think more people know what a coat of arms is vs. a surcoat? Being 17 and not having much of a social life, I don't have a very good idea of general public knowledge.
     
  15. Tamsin

    Tamsin New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2009
    Messages:
    154
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Singapore
    You know a coat of arms isn't actually a coat, right?
     
  16. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2010
    Messages:
    5,319
    Likes Received:
    97
    surcoat is fine, make it highly embroidered (maybe by his love), make it out of silk or velvet make it clear his background is gentrified. Add lace and taffeta. He would have also had a tunic, a tabard and a cloak. If he was a noble man the latter would have been trimmed in fur. And a pointed cap.
     
  17. stubeard

    stubeard Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2010
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    England
    Have you seen the BBC's (or PBS's) adaptation of Gormenghast? That's sort of what I'd call a castle fantasy but with some more modern looking clothes.
     
  18. Reximus

    Reximus New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah I'll probably go with surcoat. The reason why I don't think I will go with coat of arms is the "arms" part of it makes him sound like he is some kind of soldier. Which at the time of the wedding he is nothing of the sort. However I might just find another suit of clothing that sounds and fits better so on my free time I'll keep searching for now. Doesn't hurt to keep searching and play it safe after all.
     
  19. minstrel

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    10,742
    Likes Received:
    9,991
    Location:
    Near Sedro Woolley, Washington
    Reximus, wiki "coat of arms". It isn't what I think you think it is.
     
  20. Reximus

    Reximus New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then what it is? XD
     
  21. Reximus

    Reximus New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    oh you said wiki it, will do.
     
  22. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    36,161
    Likes Received:
    2,828
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    Wiki is Weaky. Google your research, don't just Wiki it.
     
  23. Reximus

    Reximus New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2009
    Messages:
    33
    Likes Received:
    0
    It seems I wasn't far off with my deduction though. I read the wiki page and a definition from wordiq and although the coat of arms can be worn for other reasons it is usually worn by the military.

    Here is a quote from wordiq "A modern coat of arms is derived from the mediƦval practice of painting designs onto the shield and outer clothing of knights to enable them to be identified in battle, and later in tournaments."

    So I am just saying I'm not going to use coat of arms. Even if it was okay to use a coat of arms, a surcoat sounds nicer. Since it might not be confused with someone in the military and it is just as romantic and looks almost the same.
     
  24. minstrel

    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Messages:
    10,742
    Likes Received:
    9,991
    Location:
    Near Sedro Woolley, Washington
    It's ok in this instance, Cog. Reximus isn't being asked to research a paper on the causes of the Vietnam War.
     
  25. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    May 19, 2007
    Messages:
    36,161
    Likes Received:
    2,828
    Location:
    Massachusetts, USA
    Going straight to Wiki is a bad habit to get into, period.
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice