I have a few things that make it so I'm not good at reading social signals, so field research was kinda out of my abilities.
This is getting off topic (so everyone feel free to skip to the next relevant post), but I don't believe that is in any way a universal truth. I have a female best friend who I adore and cherish beyond anything. I have a male best friend who to a lesser degree is an intimate & loved compatriot. (Both are platonic relations, but I am always accused or believed to be in a romantic and/or sexual relationship with one or the other of them—more often with her, but if not her then automatically with him). I have one other female friend, and then seven guy friends. We've all known each other for 10 years now, been really close for four. Most of my friends are men. Everyone is absolutely at ease with one another, and I've spent time in groups and individually with all of the guys, till 5AM at their apartments or houses, watching movies, getting food, going on random adventures, screwing around, just chilling. Not with a single one has there been any kissing or sexual advances of any kind. We're just all good friends and comfortable with each other. And while it could be argued this is just because it's me (I know I'm a very particular cup of tea, and only very specific sorts of men show interest), my female best friend is literally breath-takingly gorgeous and sexy, and has men drooling over her left & right. Same group of friends, same individual alone time with all of them, together from early afternoon to the wee hours of the morning—not a single physical intimacy or romantic overture of any kind between any of them. Been no incidents with the third girl among our friend group as far as I've been made aware either. I feel like it's the biggest lie that men & women (or sexes of sexual/romantic preference, whether a hetero or homo inclination) can not simply be friends without the involvement or interference of sex or romance in some way at some time. If anyone doesn't mind or particularly likes that blending of boundaries, that's perfectly fine. If kissing or sex with friends is their thing, whatever floats their boat. But I dislike it when they then go on to tell everyone else a platonic intimacy is impossible universally. I love my intimate platonic relationships, and I hate it when people try to insist it's mythical or inevitably to end.
There is probably a big difference between flirting in a place like a bar, club, party, and flirting in an ordinary situation such as work or during some other activity that isn't geared toward finding a significant other. Or picking up a one-night-stand. Personally, I detest bars, clubs and parties as places to meet potential partners. You don't get to see the real person in a situation like that, do you? It's an artificial environment, and most folks are actively 'looking.' Urkkk....
Totally TOTALLY agree with you. Several of my best friends are men, including several who shared a house with me at one point or another. We were never romantically inclined. Just great friends. And still are. I got along so well with one of them that we actually did discuss having a relationship, as it seemed a bit of a waste not to. However, we both agreed it just wasn't happening that way, and why ruin a great friendship? We're still great friends, more than 40 years later. I was just on the phone to him last week. Another one of my old male roommates visited me and my husband in October. He wanted to introduce me to his new wife. (He's divorced from his first wife.) Great time. I don't know, but it has always been easy for me to distinguish between friends and 'more than friends.' These relationships don't evolve. They seem to happen one way or another from the first, and don't change. I'm still friendly with several ex-es, but it's a different dynamic.
I think perhaps you associate sex with commitment or a romantic relationship. Sometimes sex is just sex, no strings attached or hurt feelings. Maybe it's my time spent in the theatre and being amongst people with bohemian sensibilities, but there was usually a sexual component to relationships. More times than not mostly playful, but it was out front and easy. And, it's not just a stereotype, there are a lot of gay men in theatre. That I'm straight and was in such company made things more profitable for me, to say the least. I think in your situation it might be that hanging out isn't all that stimulating to you? When you find yourself intimately involved in the creative process with someone, you get to know that person on a level that even their closest non-artist friends won't understand. The few friendships I keep, those who aren't serious or professional artists, don't really know me at all, and to be honest, I don't care to know them on a more intimate level. Also, do you and your friends drink alcohol?.. alcohol is the lubricant of love. You do things drunk that would make you cringe sober.
I'm down with sex being just sex - but when you wind up doing your best mates girlfriend because you were both legless saying "it was just sex bro'" isn't going to cut it the same applies to sleeping with your boss, your co workers, your partners friends etc etc Sex is just sex until it isnt
Forum field trip to a singles bar coming up Never mind "the mystery method" , we could employ the Moosetry method -" just go and talk to her like shes a person not a piece of meat"
Oh I agree. Married women, women with kids, coworkers, neighbors, a woman in a committed relationship... and especially a woman whose just broke up with her guy, are all off limits. Which is probably why I find myself alone these days and two years since my last serious relationship. But I do have a vivid imagination... and that reminds me that I should do my laundry tonight. My bedsheets are need of a thorough washing.
I know there is a difference between sex and romance, which is why I differentiated and included both terms as separate things. Everyone of the group, aside myself and my best male friend, drink. And drinking of course happens during all gatherings or hangouts. I personally don't drink because I just don't enjoy the taste or feeling (I also had been given alcohol medicinally to assist with my insomnia when a teen, but it never really helped, so it could just be a weird unconscious association) and because I don't need help losing social inhibitions (often I need assistance maintaining them). He doesn't drink because there is crippling alcoholism that runs rampant through his family and has genetic predisposition towards it, so he civilly declines participating. Everyone else drinks, and several do quite liberally. Only one to excess Again, I find no fault if people have physical intimacies with just friends or have no-string attached relations But the universal statement of if they are at ease with each other and have been close for a long time, "sex should happen" is ridiculous Intimate friendships can exist without kissing, sex, or romance of any kind, regardless of gender or sexual or romantic preferences. Men can be friends with men. Men can be friends with women. Women can be friends with men. Women can be friends with women. Non-romantic, non-sexual relationships can and do in fact exist. And that's all.
I suppose I specifically meant "doing whatever I can without actually making the first move", which is in itself the first move. So yeah. Playing it cool.
It's a horrible dilemma, actually. If I am really attracted to a person, I find it harder to make myself vulnerable to them. If they ignore me or reject me, that will HURT. So the more I want them, the more I am inclined to hang back, pretend indifference, and hope. (Why didn't you tell me how you felt? is the source of my greatest regret ever.) If I'm not that bothered one way or another, I'm not worried about getting hurt, so I'm more inclined to be upfront about what I want from a potential lover. The ones I really REALLY care about may never know.
Plan for the worst, and hope for the best. Rejection is no fun for anyone, and no one likes be rejected. Easier to accept something when it is expected, over the unexpected. The more rejection you get the better. Like water rolling off a duck it is. Always a pleasant and welcome surprise when your not shot down by the flak cannons. Either that or people are genuinely scared of each other when they are not apart of their 'clan/enclave', so to speak. (I wish I had more friends.)
If this is happening with a lot of different women/girls, it seems likely that your friend is doing something that comes off as creepy, beyond just not being attractive. I'm not saying he's deliberately creepy or has bad intentions or anything, but there's probably something that's making people uncomfortable. I can think of lots of guys who I found unattractive but wasn't creeped out by when they came on to me, but I can also think of some who were both unattractive and creeped me out (and some who were initially attractive and then creeped me out later). I'm not saying my "creeped out" instinct is a reliable indicator of a guy being an actual creep, but I do think there's something more involved than just finding a guy unattractive.
I agree with @BayView on this. Do you and this friend have any female friends in common? Maybe they could tell you what the issue is--even if they're not comfortable telling him? I am concerned about "pressing for a yes." Yes to what? If it's more than yes to a brief chat, and these women are strangers to him, maybe there's a context that he's fundamentally misunderstanding.
I have a colleague who all the female staff uniformly find creepy, they say its not anything he does but the way he looks at them. For several years I thought they might be being a bit oversensitive as I couldn't see any sign of overt lechery or anything. Then a couple of months ago it transpired that he was keeping a notebook in which he scores every woman he meets out of ten for "legs, tits, arse, and general shagability" (we found this out because he told another male colleague and showed him said note book as if it was a good thing.) Because I've been off with depression I haven't yet had the opportunity to have a full and frank exchange of views with the odious little creep on the topic of professionalism, sexual discrimination, and generally not being a disgrace to the male sex. But sooner or later I'm not of course saying that your friend is doing anything of the sort - imerely mention it as an illustration of men not always being able to pick up the 'creep' vibe in other men
Mistborn Trilogy- Vin is a good example of how a relationship can start with just clever comments and shared interaction. Also- it happens to be at a fancy ball and Elend Venture (The guy in the relationship) is a noble. Not sure if this helps, but I thought it was one of the least "fake" sounding relationships I've ever read about.
I can continue with what not to do. Some creepy dude at work, who's breath smelled like curry and looked like he got fired from Duck Dynasty, randomly kissed a female coworker on the lips without consent, or any relationship between them. He got fired same day. Don't do that. He also had no concept of personal space. There was another time where he'd "left" work well over half an hour before I did, and yet he was still in the parking lot, and pulled up next to my car to talk to me. And another time when he randomly told me to not pull so far up to the sidewalk because it might scrape / bust open my oil pan or something. He was always just loitering around. So yeah. Understand personal space. He was a nice guy, but that doesn't mean shit. A girl will take a chance with a total asshole who doesn't creep her out any day over a nice, relaxing Bill Cosby, so keep that in mind when designing your character / the flirtatious dialogue.
The OP was asking about the ways women flirt with men, to better write how their female character flirts with their male character Forgive me if I am mistaken, but it sounds like you're advising on how men should not approach/flirt with women If you meant it inverted as well, my apologies
I stopped reading this thread a bit ago because it became apparent that what was a writing question was being interpreted as a personal one. I realised I wasn't going to get much from it after that.
It does seem to have turned into "hey how can I pick up chicks ?" but to be fair you could still learn the answer to your question about how people flirt from it. (The other thing is its not compulsory to have a Male MC and Female sidekick romantically involved - so if you don't know how to write her flirting, don't. write her not flirting instead. )
Okay, sorry about that love I personally believe that it's true that if at any time a person can find a way to excusably talk about ourselves, we will inevitably use every opportunity to talk about ourselves (>_<)
