Writing Heterosexual Characters/Romance

My intention wasn't to mock any particular individual. It was to make a point which I think is still a good point to make. And like I said in a previous post, I'm joking and I'm being serious. Heterosexuality is an actual thing. If asking if there are important things to consider when writing gay characters, it should also be important to ask about things to consider when writing straight characters. It's interesting to see how defensive people get when you highlight assumptions around social norms, as if they're some unspeakable sacred thing. Another question would be "how do you write white characters?" On a mostly white forum this would be offensive because all the white people would more or less assume "we're people, idiot, there's nothing about us to know." Whereas, to ask whether there is anything to keep in mind when writing people of color, it would spark a thoughtful conversation about diversity, social oppression, history, psychology and so on. Yes, this thread is satire. And, it's putting a mirror in front of our faces about something most of us (including myself) don't think about much. I think it's shortsighted to see this only as some immature attack on somebody. I don't even know who started the other thread and have no negative thoughts or feelings about them. If they're having a nervous breakdown about me starting this thread that sucks, but I sort of doubt it. If I'm losing karma points on the forum, oh well.

 

I... really don't get your point here.

Asking how to write heterosexual characters is perfectly valid. So is asking how to write white characters. If you're not familiar with the culture, and you're not sure how to write about it well, surely you should be asking? What in the name of Sweet Mary Hellfire is going to be offensive about that?

I mean, I seem to remember from posts in other threads that you're white. Would you really find it that offensive if someone asked how to write a white character, maybe wanted to know how it affected you not having to put up with the random crap that PoCs get lobbed at them repeatedly?

Maybe it is shortsighted to see it only as an immature attack. But it sure as hell looks partly like one.

 

All seriousness aside, I think it's better to ask than to assume if you're not familiar with the subject you're writing about, even if the questions are self-evident to those who have had exposure to the subject at hand in one way or another. If you feel you lack insight into writing e.g. white people, go ahead and ask; it doesn't cost anything, and even if the subject is such that nobody can give more than their subjective take on it (e.g. what it's like to be white in e.g. Russia), even that's better than relying on assumptions.

I'd also like to point out that just about every question is self-evident and "stupid" to someone. For example, plenty of times I see "dumb" questions about writing fight scenes; I've trained various styles for over 25 years, martial arts and combat sports are a lifestyle to me, and I've been in a few tussles, I've trained with newbies, some of the best instructors and practitioners in the world, and every skill level in-between. All of the above combined gives me enough insight into the subject that many things are self-evident, obvious, stuff I'd assume makes sense to everybody, but that's not the case if they haven't had exposure to the subject.
And yes, I'll reply even to the questions the answers to which are obvious to me.

Sure, martial arts are a specific skill and mindset whereas being of e.g. a certain race or sexuality tends to be a more... "general" (?) experience, but we all come from very varied backgrounds, with very varied life experiences, so I'd prefer if we encouraged people to ask rather than assume instead of essentially labeling some questions as stupid, taboo, offensive; questions you shouldn't ask, or if you do, the response is the equivalent of "don't ask stupid questions." Take into consideration that not everybody comes from a privileged, white, western culture with readily available internet access, multicultural, progressive schools etc.

Note: none of the above means people shouldn't use the search function before starting new threads. E.g. we've a million "how to write a gay/female/male/trans/black/bipolar/whatever character" -threads, so yes, do use the search function before starting a thread that's practically identical to a dozen others. People do get tired of typing the same replies over and over again.

 

So, how should I write a martial artist? If I'm writing about someone who's really into martial arts, what will that character's family relationships be like? What kind of person will that character want to date? I want my character to have a pet - would someone who's really into martial arts prefer a dog, or a cat?

The weirdness doesn't come from someone not knowing the answers to the questions - the weirdness comes from thinking there are answers to the questions, answers that will include all members of a diverse group. Assuming that the answers will be the same for all members of a group reduces the members to being unidimensional - the most important thing about them, their only defining characteristic, is their sex or their sexuality or their skin colour or their attitude toward martial arts.

I mean, at least liking martial arts is a choice, so there might actually be some logical connection between choosing to be involved in martial arts and making other choices in life. So possibly it's slightly less absurd to ask the questions in my opening paragraph than it is to ask some of the other questions that get asked about people of non-majority sexual preference or skin colour.

So, when you're answering questions about martial arts, it makes sense for you to have answers. There are better and worse ways to fight; there aren't better and worse ways to be gay, a woman, or a person of colour.

 

They'd prefer cats. Cats are amazing.

Yes, it seems fairly ridiculous to ask something like 'if my character is gay, what's their favourite colour going to be?' But I don't think anyone should ever be mocked for asking an honest question. All that does is make them stop asking questions in the future.

Mock people for stupid answers, fine. If they make that an Olympic sport I'm gunning at least for silver. But this thread felt far more aimed at the OP, at least to me.

 

I see the point about this seeming like a nasty attack on somebody. It didn't occur to me it would come off that way, but now that I get it I'll not do it in the future.

 

I see what you're saying - but this thread didn't feel directed at a specific person or post at all, to me. Most people who've been around writing boards for a while have seen so damn many of these threads, I felt like this was just a response to ALL of them. And I feel like I've seen enough of @Hubardo being a really respectful community member that I wouldn't doubt his intentions at all. Mine? Yeah, whatevs. Doubt mine if you want. (I'm feeling strangely protective of @Hubardo - not sure why!)

 

Of course I understand the reasoning that we want to keep the site like mock free and everything but I don't know.....sometimes it feels like (and Im speaking in general

Eh

It ain't so bad.

I mean I didn't have a dog in whatever was going on in the other thread or nothing but I was just reading through this one and a lot folk is talking about what's insensetive and what's not on this thread and what's funny and what's not.

Hmmm

But really its not so bad.

Sometimes I think a lot of arguments just happen on this site because some of us have more unfiltered senses of humor and others have a more like reserved polite nature. Soooooooo like when some of us interact with one another it can go south quickly just cause grew up and all that usual stuff.

Some of us are more unfiltered and some of us are more sensitive about things.

I find it best to have a middle ground.

Ya know?

Be nice, kind and friendly don't put up with people who are truly intentionally with peoples feeling. You should do your best to be respectful to everybody always smile and just be a caring person as you can, stand up to the bullies. But don't become so like sensitive and all about justice that you huff and puff in disgust over some offensive jokes or heck in some cases things that aren't really offensive at all.

Then you become to overly politically correct (which is BAD because it really does just ruin a lot of fun)

Flipside, make jokes and do some teasing (even harsh teasing) if you're around people who are like also of the same crass and crazy mind because I do think more unfiltered humor can be a healthy stress reliever and good for a laugh but it can come off real rude and mean if you say that kinda stuff around the wrong people, out of context or in the wrong situation.

Then you are just a dick. (And that's just a fun killer)

The key part my friends is something I call balance!

Even though its very contradicting and hard to do XD For the more like wild unfiltered folk its about more being able to learn when their like more offensive humor isn't appropriate, it can hurt someone if you say it to the wrong person and with the more sensitive its about learning that everything isn't an attack and you need to be able to lighten up even if something seems rude.....gotta be able to laugh sometimes.

It can be hard to follow and I hope I made sense, my intention wasn't to start a debate but I've noticed a lot of threads where it jokes that blow up into needless debating. So just some food for thought that everybody has different ways of interacting and laughing with one another.

Like what we all find funny is different.

And since there are so many of us and this is the internet it can be hard I don't think any of us really are like trying to offend or anything or I dont know, just rambliiiing. But yeah I hope I made some kinda point.

Without it sounding dumb

Still! Even that was badly written, I still think its most fun and easy to be like not far with either way.

 

Guys like girls. Girls like guys.

It's just like being gay but there are other kinds of genitals involved.

 

Yeah and then there's all that persecution many gay people still face in many, many countries, persecution that straight people aren't subjected to, so unless you're writing a utopia where everyone is perfectly equal and nobody dislikes people in any way different from themselves at all, it's possible there may be some differences in the experience.

That is, unless we're simply talking about very western-focused writing with little to no contact with bigots, not to mention being exposed to persecution/harassment from some less tolerant people from less gay-friendly countries via the internet (if not IRL). If the story takes place in a very limited (as in small milieu/narrow context etc), friendly, and equal environment (e.g. the entire story takes place in one apartment over the course of a few hours), sure, their experiences may be identical.
I mean, at least within the confines of how identical the experiences of different individuals can be: I'm sure my and my wife's experience as a straight couple is different from that of the straight couple living in the apartment below us, but we've never been persecuted for our sexualities, so that's something to consider.

Sure, when I was a child, I was subjected to racist bullying up until my teens, and while that's a form of persecution, its effects probably vary from that of being persecuted for something else. Again, different within the confines of how different individuals experience things.

Of course there's overlapping between different forms of persecution, but from what I've understood, there are also differences.

I think claiming or implying the experiences are exactly the same is not only over-simplifying the issue, but it also ignores the mix of individual differences vs. similarities within single as well as various demographics, and it's very western-centric: even though we in the west have almost reached equality, it doesn't mean the rest of the world doesn't exist or that it changes along with us.

One thing writers do need to remember is that we are all ultimately people. Just because we may have different experiences doesn't increase or decrease our value as human beings: my experience with racism in Finland doesn't make me inherently any better or worse than my gay friend living in Russia where she's persecuted for her homosexuality, but despite some overlap in our experiences, there are still many differences that you might want to consider as a writer (not least of all that I experienced the bullying between ages 7-12yo whereas her bullying didn't start until her teens when her sexuality was noticed by the people in her community).

None of what I said are strict rules, The Ultimate Truth, or anything of the like, just a few things to consider.