By J. Paul Roe on Feb 13, 2016 at 8:38 PM
  1. J. Paul Roe

    J. Paul Roe New Member

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    Where Do Ideas Come From? I'll Tell You.

    Discussion in 'General Writing' started by J. Paul Roe, Feb 13, 2016.

    I've been participating in writers' groups for a very long time. More often than not these days, I'm the one answering the questions, and I'll be very forthcoming about why people like listening to my answers. It's not because my answers are the best, it's because my answers are unique.

    Because I've been around so many writers' groups, workshops, classes, labs, and forums over the last ten years, I've been able to collect a lot of data. And what does that data show? It shows that people have been giving the same lame answers to writing-related questions for at least ten years. My goal is to buck that trend, because I know that hearing “you should read more” for the ten-thousandth time is not going to help you write.

    The writing community is still asking the same basic questions, and that tells me that the answers they're getting are garbage. Plain and simple. As writers helping writers, we owe it to our contemporaries to not waste their time by regurgitating the same cookie-cutter advice that has been floating around for decades. The writing community needs new answers, smarter solutions to the problems that plague us all.

    Toward that end, I'm going to answer the most commonly-asked question I've ever come across:

    Where do you get ideas?”

    This is not a simple question, yet so many people give it a simple answer. “Read more fiction” is a simple answer, but it's also a crappy one. Yet, so many writers say it, repeat it, and swear by it. Why? Because we all enjoy reading and, heck, it sounds like a decent way to get ideas, right? Not so much. It's more likely to set you up to steal ideas, and you won't even be doing it intentionally.

    You know darn well that many new writers produce work that reads exactly like someone else's story. That's because knuckleheads keep telling them to read more, and then these new writers take the advice and read their 900th R.A. Salvatore book. Then they're surprised when their own work continues to read like a bad R.A. Salvatore fan fiction. What do you expect?

    Now, I've seen even worse answers to the “where do you get ideas?” question. Some folks will talk about sitting on their porch, taking walks, or playing with their kids, offering these up as advice to “get ideas.” These are also crappy answers. They are ephemeral, personal exercises that aren't universally actionable. At best, they're distractions. They can play a part in the innovation process by freeing up your subconscious mind, but that's still not an answer to the underlying question.

    Why am I so obsessed with getting down to the hard answer? What's wrong with telling another writer to sit on their porch when they need a creative boost?

    Look, when someone is asking how to come up with ideas, it's like they're asking for help finding food. They're starving for a creative spark. If a hungry person were asking how they can eat and not die in front of you, you wouldn't tell them to go for a walk. “Go play with your kids and maybe you'll think of a way to get food!” No.

    You also wouldn't tell them to watch you eat until their stomach is no longer cramping from hunger. Watching someone else succeed at eating won't sate their hunger! We all know this, yet so many writers are quick to apply that stupid logic to writing. “Go see how another writer created a novel and you'll get creative ideas!” Nope. It doesn't work that way.

    Let's go all “parable” on this; If someone needed to feed themselves, the best course of action is to teach them to fish. In doing so, you're showing them where the food comes from (the river) and how to get it (hand grenades. Or a fishing pole. Whatever.)

    Likewise, the best answer to “where do you get your ideas” is to explain where ideas come from and how to catch them.

    The problem, right off the bat, is that most people have no clue where ideas come from. That's why I'm here. I'm going to tell you.

    Ideas are produced by a largely-subconscious synthesizing process. The human mind is incredibly good at taking multiple concepts and combining them into new ones. It takes A, adds it to B, and creates C. Every new thought in your head is a product of that math, although you don't see it happening.

    It's like this: At some point in history, someone looked at a potato, then looked at a hammer, and mashed potatoes were born. The idea of mashed potatoes didn't just fly into someone's head while they were playing with their kids. The idea was a synthesis of two existing concepts within the creator's mind; In this case, it may have been “I can smash things with a hammer” and “potatoes taste good.”

    The point of that barely-adequate illustration? If said person had no idea what a potato was, they couldn't have come up with mashed potatoes. A+B=C. They would have lacked the required conceptual raw materials to assemble the idea.

    The more concepts you have in your mind, the more creative you can be. Think of knowledge as a pile of Lego bricks. The more of them you have, the more things you can build. Therefore, the first step to becoming a never-ending wellspring of creativity is to stockpile your mind with conceptual raw material. Yes, this means learning about the world and experiencing its many facets for yourself.

    Now, go back to the Lego analogy. You may have a pile of blocks as high as your waist . . . but what if they're all blue 4x4 blocks? You can only build so many things when you have a pile of the same block, because your creative options are so severely limited. You get the same outcome when you learn about, read, or experience the same things over and over again. You'll have tons of “stuff” in your head, but it's all variations on a theme. Thus, the second step to unlocking your creative mind is to diversify your conceptual raw material. Reading nothing but science fiction novels will fill your brain with all the same blocks. Where's the fun in that?

    I never run out of ideas. When other writers are stuck with their own stories, I can usually come up with a solution in seconds. Why? Because I have a huge, diverse stockpile of raw concepts. I enjoy writing fantasy, but I haven't read a fantasy novel in two years. I read naval history books, magazines about celebrities, National Geographic, biographies, and non-fiction books about photography. And guess what? I've gotten more original ideas for fantasy fiction from reading photography textbooks than I ever did from reading fantasy. The reason is obvious: if you're getting ideas for your fantasy story by reading fantasy novels, you're going to have a hell of a time being original.

    When it comes to raw innovation in storytelling, you can forget “The Hero's Journey.” Forget outlining and all of the technical methods. It's the assortment of knowledge, the raw materials, in your brain that matter. Star Wars exists because George Lucas watched Flash Gordon and old samurai movies. His creative mind combined elements from what he knew to assemble what he created. He didn't just pull the ideas from the air . . . nor did Lucas ever claim to. He'll openly tell you where his ideas came from, and if he'd never learned about a variety of genres, Star Wars would not exist. That's that.

    Ideas do not come from some other dimension. They are not magical or bestowed by the muses. They are the product of intelligence. They are the product of diverse knowledge. There's a good reason why most successful writers are bright-minded folks. If great ideas magically appeared from space, everyone would have them. There would be no bias leaning towards intelligence, but there is. If you want better ideas, focus on learning more about the world.

    Don't take offense to that previous remark. If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it's that average people don't aspire to write. (These days, statistically-average people don't even read.) If you desire to be a storyteller, you're already ahead of the curve on the whole “smart” thing. The next challenge is to feed your brain with a diverse spread of knowledge. Reading fiction is easy, but reading to learn can be a challenge. And that's where most aspiring writers cut their own throats. They read novel after novel, usually in their preferred genre, thinking that it will have some impact on their own ideas. Reading non-fiction, especially if it has nothing to do with what you're planning to write, will give you a far greater creative advantage. I promise.

    As a writer, it's your job to constantly learn. Broaden your horizons, and do not have a “wheelhouse.” You don't want to specialize, because specialization will kill your creative mind. Learn about psychology, history, dancing, agriculture, textiles, stock markets, auto repair, avionics, biology, and everything else. It's what you don't already know that will be assembled into your next great idea.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 14, 2016

Comments

Discussion in 'General Writing' started by J. Paul Roe, Feb 13, 2016.

    1. Mckk
      Mckk
      Because it's fun to put words together and create a beautiful image :) because writing the emotion allows me to feel the emotion and it becomes a kind of release, a detox, if you will. It's liberating.

      Btw I'm one of those who lacks ideas... :wtf: It's true I don't often read outside of my interest areas. I read crime, drama, chick lit, general fiction, YA, a limited amount of fantasy, as well as non-fiction Christian books, online articles about gender, religion, social issues, disabilities, trauma etc - whatever I stumble across really. I also read the occasional non-fiction book of any random topic, although again usually revolving around social/human issues. On Facebook I also stumble across interesting artists, whose articles and work I'll read up on.

      But here's the catch - how do you learn to read outside of your interest or comfort zones when those outside do not interest you? No one wants to sit with a book that's gonna bore them to tears, and since it's not like I'm studying for a degree where I know I need to get through this to pass my exam and get that cert, why would anyone push through it? And if you don't, can you honestly ever, realistically, move outside of your interest areas?

      Discovering a new interest area doesn't count, because then it becomes part of it, not outside it. :ninja:
    2. Hwaigon
      Hwaigon
      I think ideas are a unique bland of inspiration and own, personal experience. I personally have always had a hacktone of diverse, often fantastic ideas but
      the tricky part is to weave them into a plausible, not-so-much-far-fetched plot, or if so, one that sounds reasonable or at least reasonable to some people.
      The fans, you know. The ones who let themselves be beguiled and buy the illusion.
    3. Temmy Sabrina Oyinloye
      Temmy Sabrina Oyinloye
      Interesting article. A bit aggressive and somewhat alienating, but the message is crystal.
      Alan Aspie likes this.
    4. Hwaigon
      Hwaigon
      One thing I'd also like to quote - Brandon Sanderson (as referred to here somewhere) - "Ideas are cheap." Can't remember what he said afterwards but I'm pretty sure it went along the lines of "...but the way you work them into a story should not be." Their cheapiness suggests they're not hard to come by.
      Alan Aspie likes this.
    5. Scot
      Scot
      I have no problem with 'ideas'. Mine usually start with a simple "what if?"
      What if something had happened sooner/later/before/after/somewhere else . . . .
      Or I might read about something unusual, with me often of a scientific nature, and see if I can spin a story out of it.
      I have dozens of ideas, some of them just titles written down just waiting on me expanding them into something readable.
      The hard part is writing.
      Harder still is writing well.
    6. theamorset
      theamorset
      You are kinda saying, 'read more', ya know. You're just saying don't read a lot of what others write. Read about things.

      I think that's bad advice if it's taken too far. As is advice to read more novels in one's genre, if taken too far.

      I think that ideas are easy and writing is hard. :)

      I think people who say, "how do I get ideas for writing" usually are suffering from the problem of not liking or trusting the ideas that they have, or from having trouble finishing stories about the ideas that they have(in other words, just mastering basics).

      I think that's very common among people who spend too much time listening to other writers and trying to do what they do. They go to one seminar and get jerked this way; they go to another seminar and get jerked that way.

      I think it was in the movie ''Waiting for Guffman", that people were trying so hard to come up with 'unique' story plotlines.

      I don't think it's necessary.

      I think the most important thing is to write. Just get to it. Don't worry at first, if the story has been told before. Tell it in your way and finish it and see what happens. Learn from it.
    7. esshesse
      esshesse
      great post. I'm not going to hate on you for your "arrogance"
      Alan Aspie likes this.
    8. MarcT
      MarcT
      I don't think you can teach people how to get ideas and it's just wrong to say the 'the muse', to use the OPs reference, doesn't magically appear. It/he/she most certainly does.
      Coming up with an idea isn't a conscious process either, at least not with me anyway.
      I could be in the shower, riding the bike, drilling a hole in the wall etc etc. Those are the moments when the ideas come and not simply because I might have filled my head with a jumble of data from books or other media either. It's because my mind was relatively empty at the time and uncluttered, if that doesn't sound terribly naff.
      My current project was born from my living in South America and observing life around me and gradually those 'what ifs?´started to pop into my head one after the other and the idea then took shape and form.
      I agree that reading is great brain food and I simply couldn't be without a good book by my side, but reading other books has very little indeed to do with what I write.
      As writers, we are natural observers and without wishing to blow my own trumpet, my other half has often mentioned how I observe others. That´s in our nature.
      As to the allegory about teaching someone to find the tools to look for food? Sorry, but that's just nonsense on so many levels.
    9. Adrien
      Adrien
      You proved a point here sir! I like it! I enjoyed your opinions and if I can share my simple opinion here it is. I believe our ideas come from other people with in our conscious space. I believe ideas come from our experiences. I've never written anything at all where I would put my hopes and dreams into until I went to jail. I read a lot and now I'm constantly inspired by my own thoughts and every day experiences and if your spiritual like me I believe we share the same conscious there for I feel when I am writing not all my thoughts, feelings, and ideas are exactly mine. I certainly do feel a divine inspiration every time I write and maybe that's because I smoke weed. Some writers do, and many other geniuses have done the same developing anything from a to z for society. In that high something inspires these writers and its hard to say I don't feel the same.
    10. writingone
      writingone
      My ideas come from my life's circumstances. I only write about what I understand. I ask to many questions sometime are just rattle off. I learn by questions from the subject I am writing about or the readers misunderstanding of what they thought I meant. I am exceedingly opinionated about what I write about and learn what the reader thought I meant. I haven't many friends because I have dementia and that bothers me greatly!

      You would be surprise if you had a problem hearing because people do not always look at you when speaking so I try to be understood by writing instead. I have problems with story writings after five paragraphs. I try to put as much information in the sentences within the paragraphs as much as possible. I call them short stories. I try to stay within the subject are title as much as possible.

      I am proud that this forum told me about the word grammar was also used in sentence structure. I misinterpreted the word differently because I do not understand verbs nouns and the like. But I do see understanding in sentences with the correct words per sentence instead of using verbs and nouns. Each word has it's own meaning within meanings from the past. Please tell me what you think of this writing or chertique
    11. BayView
      BayView
      What do you think "verbs" and "nouns" are? How would you define those words?
    12. aDæmon
      aDæmon
      Very interesting points here, and something I started doing a few months ago. I don't get why people are bickering about this post but I suppose that's inevitable
    13. brainfruit
      brainfruit
      I appreciate the time you took to write this, the effort, but I feel like you're alienating the sh*t out of everyone. The core of your message is great, but the tone makes me want to rebel.
      PenelopeWillow likes this.
    14. Djulez
      Djulez
      Ideas are not really the problem for me either, but all the rest is!
      Can you do a post on character development, the pace of a story, etc etc :p
    15. S.L.G
      S.L.G
      I thought this post was both informative and motivating, regardless of the tone (which I did not find off-putting). One perspective to this is that people have many ideas for their stories, however they don't tell the story in a unique way. Once you get your so-called-brilliant-idea, it probably has been told before a million times. The biggest accomplishment is re-telling that idea in a fresh new way. That separates typical writers from the writers that go deep inside and push the limits of what their minds can achieve.
      Alan Aspie likes this.
    16. Writer_53
      Writer_53
    17. Writer_53
      Writer_53
      Thank you J.Paul Roe.You have given me food for thought.I am trying to write a book on how to win friends and yes sometimes I get into a block.I believe your advice if I interpret correctly is read from a wide variety of sources.combine the different ideas like lego bricks.You make a lot of sense.I will try your approach.Gracias
    18. antlad
      antlad
      The advice given has been the same since there was an author and people that wanted to be an author.
      IMO, the writing community is still asking the same questions because they want a different answer. People never think they are like other people, we are always better or different than they are.
      Writers read. Writers write. Writers think.
      People who want to write ask questions like 'where do ideas come from', over and over.

      Any of us who have written for any amount of time has been asked questions multiple times. I notice the attitude of the asker. If I feel their attitude is 'I have asked this 100 times and just want a REAL answer this time', then my reply would be something like 'If you can't get an idea, you can't write about anything'.
      People seem to think writing is like learning magic- one day an old guy will show up and reveal the ONE secret that explains all magic tricks and then I will be the best. I'll just sit here and wait until then.
      People don't want to accept the answers given, they equal hard work and no recognition. Who wants to waste 10 years writing something nobody wants to read? /sarcasm font

      Think back to school. There was always a portion of the class that thought there was some secret to writing a book report. Not just reading the book, and getting out some paper and a pencil, and then writing a report. It's the same attitude.

      Has your answer helped any?

      If someone really wants advice from me about ideas; I usually tell them something like- pick up a rock, turn it in your hands and look at it. Think of all the things that rock could be used for in reality right now. Write those things down. Then think of a sentence or paragraph for each one. Then think of the things it could be used for if reality didn't matter. Write them down, do sentences and paragraphs. You will like at least one thing and want to flesh it out.

      Like most things, the more you do it, the easier it becomes.

      Like a lot of people that like to write, I tend to have too many ideas. I have even thought about making a website that is just story ideas for people to use.
    19. Shreddinger
      Shreddinger
      I think you have done a good job at telling your point. Just one thing though: As some others have pointed out, you just come back to the "read more", you just explaing why people should read more and how people should read more (meaning, the should look for the concept behind it, look for another concept and create something new out of it), but then I wouldn't condemn the "read more" idea. It is pointless because it is not explained, not because it's bad by itself.

      The next question would obviously be: Where do you get A from(if not by reading)? That would be a very philosophical question, like can we create an idea out of nothing?
      Btw, you must be a very religious man ;)
    20. QualityPen
      QualityPen
      Many of us are stuck in our 21st century outlook and western culture and this makes it difficult for us to come up with ideas that are original. I don't have enough fingers and toes combined to count the amount of times I've seen some story cliches repeated because people don't expose themselves to other time periods and cultures. The truth is also that history can in some cases be far more unexpected and even straight up absurd than fiction.

      Sounds like fiction? Think again!
      Alan Aspie likes this.
    21. 221BOlympusExpress
      221BOlympusExpress
      This article literally made my day! Will make sure to take note of all these great points, loved that Hammer+Potato point! *Lol
    22. Rozman
      Rozman
      Good article.
    23. MarcT
      MarcT
      Not bombastic, but certainly a little long winded.
      I think it's wrong to say that ideas do not come from the ether or The Muse, even if those terms are simply romanticised ways of describing inspiration. I'm also sure that there are many writers who have not read the broad spectrum you suggest, but still end up writing successfully. I can't think of any examples off hand, but I'm sure they exist.
      On the other hand, casting the net far and wide, discovering the world and reading a very wide spectrum of genres increases your knowledge of writing, but surely living a life is even more effective in helping with those what-if scenarios.
      As an example, I live in a chaotic South American country and during a period about five years ago, I kept saying to myself 'Now, if I were president...' and thus the idea was born.
      You could be sitting on a train in the subway, it comes to a halt in a station and a man opposite you gets up to leave, whispers something to a woman standing near to you as he gets off, but she remains with an expression of fear on her face. On your way to work, you remember what he said to the woman and it haunts you all day...etc
      That's a poor example of real life providing the spark, but I think you get the gist. Read as much as you like, but ideas and sometimes really great ideas, usually come from life itself.
      Alan Aspie likes this.
    24. TheeFreakShowee
      TheeFreakShowee
      Interesting read, and a sensible explanation. Definitely agree on the thought of not specializing; it's best to try to learn about whatever you can, broaden your horizons.

      Personally, if you don't mind the quip, the ideas swirling around in this skull come from some kind of howling void of unbridled agony and insanity, hahah. It does as it wants.
    25. blueshogun96
      blueshogun96
      For me, all I need is one highly stimulating song and a picture with a strong ability to resonate within the mind, and a story is born out of it. This has happened at least thrice for me, and is my current source of ideas. Of course, my ideas are supplemented by other stories, movies, as personal experiences/desires which help stimulate my imagination as well as motivate me to insert subtle references for the most keen of readers to catch. Bonus points if there are any morals in mind as a result!

      Interesting article. Thank you for sharing!

      Shogun.

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