Geekin' out on poetry (and Romanticism)—my study thread

By Xoic · Jul 1, 2023 · ·
Wherein Xoic attempts to edumacate himself in things poetical (and Romantical)
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  1. I was making a post for the Let's talk about poetry thread, but it started getting really finnicky and nit-picky, and I don't think it's general interest stuff that most board readers would appreciate, so I'm moving it here. I can get all obsessive and dive as deep as I want on my blog, and there's nobody to drive away. I'll still be hosting that thread, but I want this option for my really deep posts that would probably annoy people out on the main board.

    Ok, I'll start by putting this here for context. Taken from the Let's talk about poetry thread:

    Ann: a pest
    A foot with three syllables, stress on the third, I asked what it's called if you look back
    I joked it's tricorder, but now I reorder my thoughts (as I page through my book, Jack!)
    Seems it's called Anapest,* deem it one of the best metric plans one can be representin'
    And now I need more just to finish this whore so I'm rhymin' and rappin' and ventin'

    And I now realize, since I've opened my eyes, that it takes more than one foot to move on
    No need to be strict, you can conter-addict—what I thought was a 'rule' I improve on
    Mix 'em up just a bit, cough hack swallow and spit, don't be rigid with laying your feet down
    Anapest and Iambic, you can swap out and cross-pick, use a mix-em-up rhythm and beat, clown

    * Not to be confused with Bud: a pest
    And now, with that in place (so the rest of this makes sense hopefully):

    I've learned now that the opposite of an Anapest is called a Dactyl—three syllables to a foot, accent on the first. Not a very helpful name though. Couldn't it be an anti-pest, or something? Antipasto maybe? A little consistency in naming would be nice.

    Actually I'm not sure if I'm going to try to memorize the names of all these—what would they be called? types of feet? Meters? Far more important to understand them functionally, and the fact that you don't need to stick strictly with one of them all the way through. In fact, I decided to look at this:

    Not sure if Jack should be stressed or not. I could say it either way and both sound natural. But it looks like each line begins and ends with an Iamb (2 syllables) and switches to Anapests (three syllables) in between. Then I dropped another Iamb in the 1st line ("I asked"). First line has 10 syllables total, second has 11 (because the first line used an Iamb where the second used an Anapest).

    It occurs to me, to make the rythym work, you must insert a pause where the comma is in the first line, right in front of the second Iamb—

    "A foot with three syllables, stress on the third, (pause) I asked what it's called if you look back"​

    The pause fills the space taken up in the other line by the first syllable of the anapest there—

    "I joked it's tricorder, but now I re-or-der my thoughts (as I page through my book, Jack!)"​

    The little syllable Der fills the space that the comma creates in the first line. I'm getting really specific here, but this helps me understand exactly what's happening. I could drop in a one-syllable word like And where the pause is and it becomes an anapest, the meter still isn't broken (there anyway).

    Just so everybody can keep up, here's the key
    Iamb—two syllables, stress on the second. Was used extensively by Shakespeare among many others: "I am, I was, were you?"
    Anapest—three syllables, stress on the third: "Was that you, Jack-ie Blue, is this me? Can you see?"
    Dactyl—Three syllables, stress on the first (an Anapest turned 'round backwards): "You did that. Where are we? Did it rain?"
    There are different ways to stress these feet (in the last example). You could say "You did that!" "Where are we? and "Did it rain?" But if they're stressed that way, not only do they take on a somewhat different meaning, but they're no longer dactyls. I suppose there's an in-betweener, a foot of three syllables with emphasis on the middle syllable. And it probably also has a name completely un-like either Anapest or Dactyl.

    Yes, it's called an Amphibrach. Of course it is!! Geez ancient Latin-dudes, way to make this stuff hard to remember!

    Hey, this helps keep things organized a bit—an iamb (as in iambic pentameter) is called a di-syllable because it has two syllables. Then you have tri-syllables, which consist of three syllables. That's what anapests, (ptera)dactyls, and brachiosauruses are.

    After a while I'll look into more, one at a time. This is all I can remember for now.


    I provide this kind of stuff in case anybody wants to study along with me. Ok, enough for the first post here. This is gonna get intense. The two books I ordered @evild4ve 's urging have arrived, and I'm reading through the one I've already got. I'll post the deep study geek-out stuff in here, and some of the general interest stuff on the thread.


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Comments

  1. Xoic
    I also ordered The Ode Less Travelled: Unlocking the Poet Within by Stephen Frye, as recommended by Socks Fox.
  2. Xoic
    Just about to order The Origins of Free Verse by H. T. Kirby-Smith. Right in the Sample there's already discussion of Coleridge's conception of the Romantic Imagination and several other topics that choke-slammed my attention. In a good way I mean.
  3. Xoic
    Bought American Free Verse: The Modern Revolution in Poetry. Wish it covered the pre-American periods too. But I guess the above book covers that.
  4. Xoic
    I found this while searching for any online articles on free verse by H T Kirby-Smith, author of the book two posts above this one. I'm utterly fascinated by his writing on the subject.

    I thought the name looked familiar, and after a moment I realized—if you go to the first page of this blog entry, he wrote the prosody tutorial that begins on a series of eye-searing brilliant green, yellow and purple pages alive with spinning twitching widgets like some Myspace or Geocities site from the early 2000's. There was an interesting article I found through it about a group of poets who adamantly hated free verse and wrote extensively about how terrible it was. One of them was William Carlos Williams, who would eventually become world renouned for his free verse poetry. But apparently he included some forms of invisible or concealed structure that put restrictions in place and made his poetry something unique. Interesting.
  5. Xoic
    This is from the article I linked to at the bottom of the previous page:

    "Morrison appeals in his lament for understanding, for a consensus that technology and so-called progress is not necessarily better or more exciting than the mythically imbued past:

    Let’s reinvent the gods, all the myths
    of the ages
    Celebrate symbols from deep elder forests . . .
    We have assembled inside this ancient
    & insane theatre
    To propagate our lust for life
    & flee the swarming wisdom
    of the streets . . .
    I’m sick of dour faces
    Staring at me from the T.V.
    Tower. I want roses in
    My garden bower; dig?"
    This has been the lament of so many poets and artists of all kinds. Creatives. Not all of them of course, but the Romantics, the ones who share Coleridge's secondary imagination to a high enough degree—which means they can access the unconscious through imagination. That's the source of myth and religion (in the original form, not the concretized church rituals that contain only dim memories of the living world of myth and religion and spirituality).

    He was wrong about one thing. Myth isn't something from the past, it's always alive inside every one of us. You need only find ways to connect with it. So many try it through drugs and alcohol and living that wild, free hedonistic life so celebrated by all the Beats and the Romantics and the Decadents and the rock stars. That's a false way in. Psychedelics can give you a way in, but it's a door that might open on heaven or hell, and it can cause permanent damage. Far better to use the long road—the approaches known to allow access. Meditation, remembering and paying close attention to your dreams, getting into the flow state through creative activity. Using a lot of metaphor and simile and symbolism (these are the language of the unconscious). Reading visionary poetry and literature, and occasionally a movie will come pretty close (maybe Apocalypse Now or Mulholland Drive or a few more). Do as much as you can to enter into communion with it. It's always there, always running, even in most stages of sleep. It's just that the conscious mind is boisterous and loud and drowns its quiet subtle voice out. You need to find techniques to quiet the conscious mind, and listen to the calm quiet voice. It isn't literally a voice (though maybe it could be at times), that's a metaphor. It means shut down the conscious mind, at least to an extent—enough so the murmurings of the unconscious come through (another metaphor). It's a stream of thoughts. They can arrive in many forms—visual, auditory, dreams, sudden visions, inspiration, gut feelings, intuition, and doubtless many more. You can access it while writing, you just need to learn to not take too much conscious control. It's a matter of letting the passenger drive. Letting the characters do what they will, rather than forcing them to act out your script. Let them be like RDJ on Iron Man, who famously crumpled up the script, threw it at the wall and said "I'm not repeating this garbage." And as a result, we got a really good movie, one of the best in the MCU. Improv.

    All that Stanislavski stuff I've been learning is perfect for getting into communion with the unconscious—it seems to be what it's aimed at. And when you do that, the inner myths come alive.
  6. Xoic
  7. Xoic
    They said the ancient Greeks were able to have a Dionysus figure and worship it at times, only because they already lived in a very rigidly structured society (very Apollonian). If you don't then don't go invoking the god of darkness, dissolution, drunken revelry, the destruction of form (including the human body), and madness, Maenads, and the melting away of boundaries. You only want him when you already live hemmed in by boundaries and limits (hmmm—like living in a city surrounded by walls and rules?).

    I ran across the same idea several times last night in the articles I found about free verse—it doesn't work as just absolute freedom, it needs to be an escape from form, from something like traditional poetic forms and meter and rhyme scheme. If you haven't absorbed those things and become frustrated with their restriction, you aren't ready to free yourself from them. You don't have the proper motivation—the need to break away.

    Remember the old game I've mentioned several times in here, where children tie a pebble to a string and spin it around their heads? You pay out string and see how far you can get it out there. But neither the pebble nor the string alone could do it—without the string the pebble would just fall to the ground. Without the weight of the pebble and centrifugal force the string won't spin out very far, if at all.

    The string is the form, and the pebble is the rebellion against it. And every great work of art has both of these elements.
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