"It's necessary in the second half of life to develop a religious attitude"

By Xoic · May 5, 2022 · ·
What it says in the title
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  1. Academy of Ideas knocks it out of the park once again. Find meaning in life or find yourself in the underworld haunted by shades and specters.
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Comments

  1. jim onion
    Then I guess I'm not going to live much past 40!
      Xoic likes this.
  2. Xoic
    But see—the thing is—you don't have to know you have a religious attitude, and you definitely don't have to take on any form of organized religion. It's just a matter of believing in something beyond the material and the logical. Many people do that but never realize they're doing it. Example—many people use politics as a substitute religion. Or atheism. Or what have you. Anime maybe? Hmmm.... :superthink:
      Foxxx likes this.
    1. jim onion
      I consider myself spiritual, or "religious" but definitely not in the sense of organized religion.

      My relationship with Christianity and God is very private and personal and individual. Not because I necessarily think I'm better than other Christians, but more because organized religion weirds me out. It starts becoming something separate from me and kinda unironically culty in a way*, and I don't like that, and I don't always think that that's what God or Jesus want. I know, pretty audacious of me to think I know what God or Jesus want! However, it feels better for me, for my conscience, to take a path that seems more true to what they want from me than a path that doesn't give me that feeling, EVEN IF I end up ultimately being wrong about that. Seems better to trust your feelings and be right 90% of the time than live in constant self-doubt.

      "It's just a matter of believing in something beyond the material and the logical." Really like the way you worded that. Yup, need to have faith. Not *a* faith, but faith.
      Madman and Xoic like this.
  3. Madman
    I am thirty now, so not past the middle mark, but I have still developed a sort of afterlife of my own. After some deaths in my life and having my own life threathened by disease and whatnot, I kinda feel like I'm sitting in a fox hole getting shelled by life. And as they say, there are no atheists in fox holes.
    When I was younger I did not think about death that much, even though I was faced with it at a very young age, it still seemed like something that couldn't happen to me, only to others.

    That said, being spiritual hasn't helped me personally with mental health. But a quick google seems to show that religious people seem to suffer less from depressive disorders. I haven't gone on a deep dive, though, so I don't know how that relates to other mental disorders.
      Foxxx and Xoic like this.
  4. Iain Aschendale
    I made it three and a half minutes. The phrase "Not even wrong" comes to mind.
      Robert Musil likes this.
  5. Xoic
    Lol well, you're not wrong about that. Of necessity the study of the human mind is a pseudoscience. It can't be dissected or studied chemically or in any other quantifiable way, but only through the methods of psychology. The same is true for religion, spirituality, and on and on. Science fails in that realm because it's outside of its effective range. But then science is only the study of the physical world after all, by its own admission. You can't rely on it for everything.
      Foxxx likes this.
    1. jim onion
      I've always found it pretty nightmarish, the idea of brain chemical determinism.
      Xoic likes this.
    2. Iain Aschendale
      Ah, the god of the gaps rears its head. Bound to happen.
  6. Xoic
    All hail the new religion of Materialism! All that exists are atoms, and energy is merely their movement. I guess that makes us all automatons then?
      Foxxx likes this.
  7. Friedrich Kugelschreiber
    I don't think the god of the gaps argument applies to the idea that science and religion are calculated to explain very different things. Science doesn't (and probably shouldn't) and ultimately can't make moral claims. A science that promulgates a system of morality is just another religion. The astronomer can tell you all sorts of things about a star, but he can't tell you what that star means.
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  8. Iain Aschendale
    Just occurred to me that religious debate probably belongs in the Debate Room. I'll meet y'all over there.

    Just as soon as my self-imposed lifetime ban expires.

    Have fun :)
    1. Xoic
      It's not a religious debate, it's the definition of science. It's limited to the study of the physical world. That's all it's capable of studying. They can build telescopes and microscopes, but not a mind-o-scope.
      Foxxx likes this.
    2. Iain Aschendale
      Been nice knowing you.
  9. Xoic
    @Friedrich Kugelschreiber Exactly. And THAT'S what people are missing—any kind of organizing system that tells them how to live morally. Religion and spirituality bring meaning into human lives, science can't do that—it can only tell us facts. It doesn't touch on the inner world, the world of thoughts, feelings, dreams and intuition, while the unconscious (home of all things religious and spiritual) emerges from that world specifically to tell us about it. It doesn't communicate in facts and logic, that's all the language of the conscious mind (shallow surface mind). The deep meaning emerges from the unconscious in symbolic language, and must be interpreted as such. That's religious language, not logic and reason.

    We spent far longer as animals than as people. The conscious mind only evolved when we stood upright and started using language. We were perfectly able to live on the unconscious alone for aeons before that—it's the native language of the mind. Conscious thought is the new arrival, and it works very differently. It isn't capable of touching the deep core of mind. When we collectively turned our backs on that (starting with the Enlightenement) we severed our ties with the natural self inside, and ever since we've been plagued with all the modern anxieties and neuroses that characterize our time.
  10. Xoic
    We've lost touch with the fact that religion speaks in metaphor. It's poetic, not literal, but in modern times people insist on trying to understand it literally. That makes it into gibberish and totally meaningless. Not only that, but the big organized religions have lost touch with what religion was the beginning. They've become dogmatic and mostly literal.
      Foxxx likes this.
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