An issue I have with reviews is that they would have to be checked for quality. Not everyone is good at writing reviews, and there may end up being a lot of bad reviews mixed in with the good, in-depth reviews.
You ignored my important point, which is that no one is going to slop through all the reviews if we allow everyone to post one. It is much more costly than valuable to devote the time necessary to do it. You also ignored my point about discussion. Centering discussion around a few well-written articles will promote discussion more than spreading it out across 10+. Bias isn't necessarily a bad thing, as it will be helpful for young writers to learn to detect it. It is educational for writers to read good articles. It is not educational to read articles from people who don't really know what they're talking about. I do think that practice is important, but practice doesn't necessitate publication.
Yes there will be. And everyone will correct the poster's mistakes when ever that happens. This will give people a reason to read particular books and then show how they integrated the knowledge found therein by providing an interesting writing exercise. What better way to learn than by doing...right?
Everyone will correct the poster's mistakes? Who is "everyone"? There are much more productive ways to learn and teach than correcting reviews.
If we used a group of writers with mixed experiences, the articles wouldn't be solely written by a single individual amateur or not, not always anyway. It would be a group that works together, and it would be clearly established before anyone wrote anything, that the lead writer would direct the others on how to write the article. He would have the final say on everything. You're still reading something from an experienced writer, maybe it's not perfect, but it would still have some good stuff and everyone would be learning something--writers and readers. This would create a sense of community I think. edit: I realized you're talking about reviews not articles.. disregard if you want but the same principle is worth a try You worded it a lot better than I did.
Daniel's original idea, way back there on page one of this thread, was to recruit volunteers to write articles (among other things). Your objection would apply to articles as well as reviews, and frankly, to everything else posted on WF. How do you sort the wheat from the chaff? We aren't the Swedish Academy here, determining who gets Nobel Prizes. So, if we need someone to check reviews and articles for quality, do we elect a group of members to that position? Would members have to campaign for the job? Most of us here are amateurs, but being amateur does not equal being incompetent. We have amateurs here with intelligence, experience, and good judgment. I believe checking reviews and articles for quality will turn out to be pretty much a non-issue.
Yeah. They will. And more importantly...YOU will. I seriously doubt some of the people round here will miss out on such a delicious opportunity to lord their superiority over the lowly neophyte's stumbling attempts at trying to sound like someone that actually matters. Oh yes that situation will be writhe with opportunities indeed. It is educational for writers to write. And the word Publication, was used in this context, in the small sense of the word. It was a sad thing to remove critical thinking skills from public education.
Yeah, that's certainly an issue. Then again, I wasn't a big fan of this idea in the first place. I think talking about fiction writing books or topics like characterization are best left for the discussion threads.
Reading, then writing reviews has been a time honored educational tradition for honing both critical thinking and writing skills. A learned member (or group) choosing a book of some merit say once a month for discussion and/or review can open up a good number of learning opportunities. Which this and other like-minded projects can have a fairly interesting effect on the numbers of people wanting to join WF simply because of all the cool stuff there is to do.
That's what I'm saying. Not really my cup of tea, dude. Makes for a shitty community. I am aware that it is educational for writers to write. That's why I said that anyone can write anything they want to. Not sure what you're even talking about anymore.
As someone who will only be reading this, all I'll say is it better be quality. No pressure, but with my reading lists, and quality writing time (time is always an issue), if it's not to a high standard, it'll only get one chance. You guys would understand that, but it never hurts to make sure it's repeated out loud. Thanks to social media, I've networked with hundreds of people, on all levels of the industry, so it'll be interesting to see the final product here, and where it stands. Keep up the good work. Hopefully you get out, what you put in.
First of all, I'm glad we turned this into a discussion. Since there's a lot here, I'm going to response to specific points rather than quoting everyone. Regarding giving advice and making it seem like the "right way" or the "WritingForums.org way" - - I'm glad this point was raised, but I don't see a solid way to address it. While we can focus one discussing other topics, I do think writing about certain aspects of writing has value if it's done properly. - @thirdwind, you suggested having multiple authors on the same topic. I'm okay with this, but I don't think it's practical to do frequently, and it would require knowledgable writers and several volunteers. I'm fine with it, but I'm not sure it's practical on a large scale. If a few of you want to get together and write an article from varying perspectives, and if it's a quality read, then I'd certain include it. I do agree that the forum is best for discussing writing issues. The article section would be meant to provide quality tips/advice/resources, suggestions, spotlight methods of doing things, and receive information from people who know what they're talking about, be it a lifelong writer, published author, editor, literary agent, publisher, etc. While there may be some inherent risk of writers, especially younger writers, thinking we are claiming a certain way is the right way, I think this risk is present virtually everywhere. Additionally, I think that most people can reason it out for themselves. Personally, I would always take a skeptical approach to any sort of advice on any topic, and I encourage everyone to do the same. All this said, we can focus on articles of whatever we want. This would be based on who's willing to volunteer to write the content and what the community wants to see. We could easily focus on publishing and other topics and approach other topics more cautiously or occasionally. @killbill, you mentioned how misadvise would likely get picked apart. I agree with you. I haven't yet worked out how feedback for specific articles would be handled. It could be handled n the forum, or in a comment section of the article. We could also consider having a thread for each article if there was a demand. This is largely what I'm going for with the article section idea. While there will still be some new content that might not be discussed, a large amount of it will be the highlights of particular discussions, some likely of threads that happen again and again. I would consider this on a case-by-case basis. If someone wanted to use this as the foundation for the article, that's fine, but in most articles I'd prefer original content. This could be your interpretation of such a compilation, or merging such information into a coherent guide. This may be true, but I don't want to rule out articles on these topics completely. We could simply have stricter criteria for such posts. Also, regarding the issue of WF endorsing articles. Each article would likely have a brief author bio/summary at the beginning or end, which would show readers that it's by an individual writer, who it is, and this could help them in determining credibility. Thanks Speedy. I agree - top quality is a requirement. It must be worth reading. As for the discussion of book reviews. Having a section for book reviews wasn't my original intent, but it's certainly something we can explore since there seems to be at least some interest in this. If they're writing-specific books, they could be including in the blog/articles section. If we're talking about book reviews in general, that may require some other separate project. If we're talking about writing-related books, having several opinions is probably a must. We are talking about a Book Reviews section in the article section, right? I would be okay with this specifically for reviews of writing-related books. However, I'll probably encounter some technical issues because the article section will be run by separate software. I do agree with this approach for book reviews though. A compromise on this subject could be having a call for reviews on a particular book. These could then be compiled, the best selected, and it could be merged into one article. This is the same idea has having a book discussion thread on a particular book, except it'd be reviews only, without discussion. @ChaosReigns, I'll send you a PM regarding volunteering. Thanks for expressing interest. Regarding volunteers - I've had 2-3 people express some interest in both major projects, but it's not enough to make either the articles section or the e-zine a reality yet. We need more contributors. Moreover, we need volunteers who are confident in their writing ability, and ideally someone with experience writing, publishing, editing, etc. who has real knowledge to share, on a wide scale, with our writing community. Right now we need members who are able to write high quality articles - you'll have a lot of freedom on the specific topic. We also need e-zine team members. Right now I have two members interested in helping select stories/content and editing. I also need members to help find publishers/authors/editors/agents to interview, write quality articles for the e-zine, and help with cover art. E-zine management and marketing are also aspects I could use help with. Also, I like the idea of collaborating on specific articles. This is something I hadn't considered at the time of my original post. In summary, I think there are some good ideas and concerns in this thread. But the fact of the matter is that without community members willing to contribute, these projects won't be able to move forward. I think the best way to resolve these concerns is to get involved and participate. Write, join the team(s), help plan and make this a reality. If we have formal teams, perhaps with formal positions, for both the article section and the e-zine, then the team will be able to steer the direction of these sections into what the community wants it to be. I want this to be a community endeavor above all else.
Daniel, I'd also like to volunteer my services. Though my writing is still in its infantile state, I'd be happy to write whatever I can, maybe stuff geared more toward the philosophical and the state of mind requisite for writers, the expanding of concepts that have come before me, and similar stuff, since I seem to write on those subjects better than my fiction, at this point.
Great! And thank you. If you can write good articles on the writing state of mind, motivation, conquering writing block, and related topics, that'd be much appreciated.
Essay of the Day/Week? I don't know quite how this forum is organised, but wouldn't it be fun if each member got asked to write a 'guest' essay? "Guest Essay of the Day" sorta thing. Topic of their choice, as long as it pertains to writing? If everybody got a chance, there would be no presumption of 'quality' or any need for any moderator to judge anybody's piece before putting it up to be read, other than to check that it does pertain to writing and doesn't contain any censorable stuff. Maybe members submit in alphabetical order, or some such organised queue, so they know when they're expected to contribute, and the moderators don't get swamped? (Of course a member can decline, if they want to.) As for reviews of books ...I think I'd be in favour of reviews of books on writing, but not published novels or whatever. Those kinds of reviews are everywhere on the internet just now—including Amazon—and I don't think I'd be in favour of clogging up the forum with more of them. This is essentially a forum about writing, not reading. I know the two are connected, but maybe not quite in the way this forum needs. I don't object to general book reviews on this site, but I'm just not whizzed about the idea. As to reviewing writing books, I'd just open a thread on it, and see what happens. Anybody who wants to can review a book on writing. That way, again, it makes things easy for the moderators, and we get to exercise our own judgement as to quality.
I just applied for a role in the Development Team. I have some big ideas i would like to share with the community and make it top-notch. Of course i'm not the only one who has good ideas
I definitely understand some of the concerns expressed here and I also agree that most people can use their own discernment. I think as long as you frame something as "this is my way not the only way" people will understand it's advice and not set in stone rules. To me that is the difference between a writing guide and an article written by a volunteer. Naturally an author trying to sell a how to book will present their way as the only right way otherwise there's no point trying to sell it. You have to convince people there's some shortcut or knowledge that is only accessible via their guide. So context is always key. I know when I first started writing more seriously I muddled through most of it on my own. I didn't know this forum existed or any other resources like it. I've bought two books with writing advice in my entire life and taken both with a large grain of salt. I like the idea of articles on different subjects because, as stated earlier, it puts the information directly in front of you without having to dig through threads. I don't believe articles would make the forum itself obsolete because there will still be people with more specific questions or people who want more than just one person's opinion. Plus discussion is always fun. I think this format would be alright because I follow several writing blogs on tumblr and they all run wonderfully, imo. It's typically a short snippet offering advice, possible techniques, answering questions, or resource links. I've seen everything from posts about grammar and sentence structure to a guide for hair and eye color. They're all run by multiple people and their advice is not framed as an end all be all. I think it's always good to be open to trying new things artistically because it helps you learn and grow. All that being said I think a format of a short article outlining some advice or techniques would be better than long essay type articles. I think people can get overwhelmed by a large amount of information and it's best to keep it concise. I like the idea of a short bio so people know who wrote it. I also like the idea of leaving it open to discussion. I feel this could be something very good if done correctly because having more information in one place is always nice. One thing I feel I can't stress enough is making sure it's framed in such a way that these articles are suggestions and not rules. I do agree with Minstrel's concerns about younger/newer writers taking it to heart too much. I know just because I was not that way does not mean others will not be. One last thing. I think articles on health issues and mental health by people who are living with it would be a useful resource to writers who do not personally know about those topics. It would save people the trouble of having to repeat themselves over and over in an effort to help others understand it better so they can present it properly and it would be a solid resource, imo. I would suggest with things like this keeping it heavily fact based and not so much like an autobiography of their life. This way it can cover it in broader terms which I think would be better. If you go forward with the articles I'm up for doing one now and again. I feel I'm strongest in character building, dialogue, and character development. I've been writing my whole life and writing seriously since I was fifteen (I am presently twenty five). Up until more recently I didn't feel anything I wrote was of a high enough caliber to be published. Now I feel I could publish what I'm presently working on once it's finished. I am not published at present but I do not feel this makes me any less competent.
Hi, I'm new to your forum, but i really like how good and useful everything is. Respect to the creators! It is not easy to create on a decent level!! I have been writing my whole life, and coaching young writers for the last 10 years. However I was doing it on the Russian side, and now i feel it is time to translate my works into English. Hence, i'm here. I have a lot of experience in building a novel (i specialize in novels, big works), but i believe my techniques, based on the idea of Four Codes of Attracting Attention Of Reader can be used for a short story as well. However i'm NOT a pro writer, i never published anything (but my students did publish stuff! , and i believe that this is not the measure of success. I do plan to publish my novel in fall. Well, i offer what i have in terms of experience, and possibly i can be a volunteer here. Again, if you're looking for professionals with actual achievements, i'm not the one. But i do have experience and expertise in writing. More important - i have well-developed techniques i call algorythms, that help write shuff that grabs a reader's attention. Regards, Griffin
I doubt Daniel will be looking for anyone just with experience, i mean, ive offered to voulnteer and have gotten somewhere, despite only being partway through my first draft of my first novel
The fact that one is not published does not mean one is incompetent. Every writer, even the most brilliant, was unpublished at one point. Harper Lee was unpublished until she came out with To Kill A Mockingbird, and it's a classic. William Golding was unpublished before Lord of the Flies. J.K. Rowling was unpublished before Harry Potter. There are wonderful writers out there who are still unpublished. Of course, there are also published writers, even popular published writers, who stink at writing. I won't name names, but we all know they're out there. These points deserve repeating every once in a while, especially in a thread like this one.
I haven't gone through all of the replies, so forgive me if I'm repeating someone. But, I think it would be neat to have maybe 3 people review the SAME writing book. That way there would be a variety of insights, or three who all liked it or hated it, or whatever. It might be neat to also have a little "debate" or discussion amongst the three reviewers. The books might be more helpful to folks who have a particular style, but not so much for others. Three might give a better chance of uncovering who might find the book useful than would just one.
I had written an extensive reply here, but it looks like it didn't post. Ah, well. This is a decent idea. Rather than go through the memberlist and have guest posters, I think it'd be better to simply have a list of members interested and willing in making a guest post. I think weekly would be best. If anyone's interested let me know. I'll explore doing this more formally once the articles section is better established. As for book reviews, at least on writing-related books, I think I have a solution that should address most of the concerns in this thread. You'll just have to wait and see though. Thanks, I sent you a PM.
Also, I think an update regarding the volunteer positions and new projects is needed. As you can see in the main menu and the forum sidebar, we've launched the writing articles section/blog (still not sure what to call it ). Thank you all who've already contributed. This writing article section is still a work in progress, so bear with me; our team will do their best to post quality, fresh, and useful content and I'll continue to improve the design. Right now I still need to tweak the design and software a bit, but that'll come in time. In the meantime, I'm open to suggestions to improve the articles section and am willing to take on new members to the article team. As for the e-zine, that has taken a temporary backseat to the articles section. The articles section is launched, so once I perfect it the e-zine will be a priority. Thanks to everyone who's volunteered or expressed interested in helping with the e-zine. I apologize for not getting back to you. I will in the next few weeks once I'm able to make the e-zine a priority.
