A Gay Captain America???

Discussion in 'Entertainment' started by Lewdog, May 25, 2016.

  1. Kinzvlle

    Kinzvlle At the bottom of a pit Contributor

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    Let's not detail to much....back to gay superheros. I notice no one has mentioned that Loki is confirmed bisexual and gender fluid by the writer of agent of Asgard. He's already in MCU so maybe we'll see something with him.
     
  2. ManOrAstroMan

    ManOrAstroMan Magical Space Detective Contributor

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    I think people ignored Loki because he's always been presented as a villain, right up until his younger self joined Young Avengers. As cool as Loki is, people would rather see themselves reflected in a hero.
     
  3. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I agree. To an extent. And in a particular mode. I'm not a fanboy-fan of comics. I'm the person you mentioned a while back in the thread who knows the characters from more of a layperson's POV. For this kind of individual (me) superheroes are hard to view and engage as actual people. They are archetypes, more than anything, for me. Not dissimilar to the way the gods and other beings of mythology represent archetypes.

    Another example, which I promise to swing back into this topic....

    Modern "nice guy" vampires. Seriously, I have little use for this character. A vampire who isn't a vampire, isn't much of anything, for me. It's a trope stripped of purpose and reason and why. "Oh, by the way, I'm a vampire. But I don't drink blood. I've got a handle on that. And I can go out in the daylight. And I have a regular job. And do you have an iPhone? I tried doing the latest update last night and something glitched. Think you can help me with that?" That's not a vampire. It's just not.​

    In the same way, to get back to Steve, Steve is more a set of ideals than a person. This is why I can't see him genuinely going gay, or just Buckysexual. It defeats his purpose. For me.
     
  4. ManOrAstroMan

    ManOrAstroMan Magical Space Detective Contributor

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    Ah, but a character who exists solely as a personification of a set of ideals couldn't be believably heterosexual, either. An attraction to Bucky, Tony, or even Coulson would, by that measure, be no less believable or out of character than an attraction to Peggy, Nat or....well, I can't think of third major female in his life because the MCU is 90% hot guys.
    Also, for well-written nice vampires, check out the Discworld books. The Black Ribboners are vampires pledging not to be predatory monsters. This leads to...interesting personality quirks.
     
  5. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Well, I can see how your engagement is different from mine, so this may will fit for you. I think we can, at least, agree that we engage it differently, so our expectations are not the same. ;)
     
  6. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

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    It was specifically about not starting a big argument in a more casual thread. But let's be friends! :friend::friend: Peace.
     
  7. ManOrAstroMan

    ManOrAstroMan Magical Space Detective Contributor

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    @Oscar Leigh ,
    We good, man. ;)

    Also, (spoilers?) I thought that pic of Cap saying "Hail Hydra" was from some old Ultimate/AU comic, but apparently not?
    Whiskey the everlovin foxtrot, Marvel???
     
  8. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

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    Marvel profficiently wields the power of endlessly changing canon.The Marvel universe is highly flexible.
     
  9. Kinzvlle

    Kinzvlle At the bottom of a pit Contributor

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    Flexible...maybe one day they`ll be flexible enough to bring back Runaways. .....I really really loved them ok. How badass would a movie with the old Runaways be? It`d have good themes too like you can still be good even if you`re born into a situation that isn`t too good. I live in a more urban areaa and I see familys goign down a certin road just becuse it`s where they come from and can oyu imange if we had children of super villens on hte big sccreen the messge that could send. Marvel actually has a unique chance here. They have platform (MCU) with everyone`s eyes on it and more then enough diehards to keep offending anyone from cutting ot big into their profits, and a wealth of stories and characters touching on so many topics to choose from. They could address so much from having a gay or bi hero on the screen to putting the current Ms. Marvel on screen as a Muslim-American superhero.
     
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  10. ManOrAstroMan

    ManOrAstroMan Magical Space Detective Contributor

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    A Runaways movie was actually optioned, but nothing came of it. Something like that would be hard to get right, especially given that mutants are a no-go in the MCU, and the Avengers and other things are a no-go in the FoX-Men verse. They'd have to retool so much it wouldn't look like itself.
     
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  11. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    This doesn't surprise given that the mythological Loki upon whom he is based was all kinds of fluid. He turned himself into a mare, took an epic boning from SvaĆ°ilfari, and gave birth to the eight-legged horse Sleipnir.
     
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  12. DrewRights

    DrewRights New Member

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    Captain America is a Christian (of some variety) as seen in the first Avengers movie. I doubt he'd be down for gay stuff.
     
  13. Mckk

    Mckk Member Supporter Contributor

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    What's with the media and making everyone gay...!? :bigconfused: (or wanting to, or perhaps fans trying to make it so) Yes, it would be awesome to make a big, awesome main character hero gay - I'm not against that. But what's with making pre-existing characters gay? Can't people just create new ones? Or can gay heroes only be cool because they're already cool before their sexual preferences/orientation/(I lack the correct term here) were revealed?

    First it was "give Elsa a girlfriend" and now it's Captain America... :superthink: Next it's gonna be "make Bond gay". :nosleep:
     
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  14. Mumble Bee

    Mumble Bee Keep writing. Contributor

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    Honestly, its not on Hollywood or the media, its on us.

    Think of it this way, there are thousands of threads on this form. The point of each thread is to attract other readers in hopes of a response.
    So why is it, weeks after this thread was created (and as other threads have begun and ultimately died) are we still discussing this?
    Its because LGBT characters have become a discussion point people want to talk about.

    There may have been a hundred articles about CPT America made, different theories and whatnot, but the one about him being Bi stuck around because we want to talk about it.

    (I think i just made this thread self-aware... I've seen Terminator, i know this doesn't end well. I'm sorry.)
     
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  15. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    For the win! :cheerleader::supergrin:
    GayCaptainAmericaKiss.jpg
     
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  16. ManOrAstroMan

    ManOrAstroMan Magical Space Detective Contributor

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    Okay, I have to take a breath here before I respond, because I'm 99% sure you didn't mean to come off the way you did and I don't want to go honey badger on you for no reason.

    First, The Media isn't making everyone gay. This started as a fan-fueled hash tag trend, and The Media just happened to remark on it. This was fans, many being silly, talking about something they'd like to see.
    Second, I actually agree about shoehorning major character traits. For something to come out of nowhere is just bad writing. Shifts in characterization should be outgrowths of what's already there, not quantum leaps from A to C with no interconnecting B. For instance, it would be logical to say Elsa was gay, or straight or ace or whatever, as nothing in the film actually states her orientation. Her lack of an overt love interest could be the result of her isolation, her focus on being a good queen, or her complete lack of interest in any sex, opposite or otherwise. The canon is ambiguous enough that any of these are possible.
    When the canon has already established one sort of relationship--like Cap & Peggy--to realistically go to a Stucky place, it requires more work for it to be believable. The pair of them have an established emotional intimacy, right? So, should Steve just walk up to Bucky and rip his pants off? Of course not. Should he ask him on a date, out of nowhere? No. But if Steve began noticing a shift in his feelings for Bucky, thus leading to him questioning those feelings, what they are and what they mean? Slow, gradual, messy--that's real, that's believable.
    And you know what? The people behind these shows and comics, etc, *should* be making gay characters. And lesbian characters, trans characters, deaf characters, etc. And they should be given the same care and attention as the straight, white cismale characters.
    And you actually hit the nail on the head. When you have a character introduced as gay, they are immediately tokenised, then either killed off or forgotten. Look at Dumbledore--if Rowling had said he was gay from the start, it would have changed the public's view of him, and you can bet that the series would have fallen flat and gotten way more flack than accusations of luring kids to witchcraft. Hell, look at every actor in Hollywood who has to hide their sexuality until they establish a career. Actors who start out out are typecast, ignored, then forgotten. So, yes, characters do have to become popular before they are "made" gay. It's pretty much the only way the public accepts them.
    And really, when people talk about "all the gay characters" or "all the female protagonists", it really sounds like Dudley Dursley complaining about only getting 36 presents when he got 37 last year.
     
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  17. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Perhaps it simply reflects the continually changing engagement society is having with sexuality. We live during a period where people in the media spotlight (for the many reasons that attract that spotlight) are more and more comfortable with being open about their relationships. This changing engagement is forcing many fixed views of what being LGBT is to also change. It smashes stereotypes to pieces when the people coming out don't fit any stereotypes. It also forces us to recognize that the spectrum of sexuality is actually much more broad and lacking in sharp lines of demarcation than most of us, str8 or LGBT, often find comfortable.

    The mask is coming off, so to speak, and to borrow a term from the land of superheroes, and we are starting to see what is really underneath. It makes us question and be curious. If Gareth Thomas - the blokiest bloke in blokedom - can be gay, then who else?
     
  18. Kingtype

    Kingtype Banned Contributor

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    Captain America was always ahead of his time even if he isn't gay. I think that's something we always need to remember.

    A real OG, ya know? He represents of the best people overall.

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Well, damn.
     
  20. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

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    The problem with doing existing LGBT characters is none of them are Avengers level famous. Many of them are obscure. As shown earlier, one of the biggest gay couples is from a series that only started in the last ten/twenty years. So while they could make something big out of those kinds of characters, it's going to be a harder sell than a bigger character. The Ms Marvel movie guys, to be clear, is going to be the straight white one. So there's no yet hope of any wider audience Marvel LGBT other than on the Netflix series.
     
  21. izzybot

    izzybot Transhuman Autophage Contributor

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    To be fair the movie is Captain Marvel. Kamala Khan is Ms Marvel. I'd kill for a Ms Marvel movie though. Especially if we got Thomas Edison.

    [​IMG]
     
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  22. Kinzvlle

    Kinzvlle At the bottom of a pit Contributor

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    See i`m not the only one pushing for a movie with the current Ms. Marvel guys.
    My favorite thing about that picture is that Chris has this wide grin, with his one arm on the guy while Sebastian just looks so shocked.
     
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  23. Kingtype

    Kingtype Banned Contributor

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    That's not best argument. (well not an argument or that you were)

    I mean its true none of the big level characters are gay but Iron Man and all them weren't exactly that famous. I mean people within comic circles certainly knew Iron Man but he wasn't EXPLOSIVE popular and certainly nobody knew about the Guardians of the Galaxy.

    So LGBT characters I think can certainly get popular but they have to be pushed like how Guardians was and what not.
     
  24. Oscar Leigh

    Oscar Leigh Contributor Contributor

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    Not saying they can't. I said earlier I'd love Wiccan/Hulkling. Young Avengers movie would be awesome. I'm just explaining why they haven't, and thus why people are talking about this. I hope they will though, I really like their couple, better than Stucky.
    P.S I think the Young Avengers would be better college aged. Less irresponsible to let them fight.
     
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  25. Kingtype

    Kingtype Banned Contributor

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    Well that's cause THEY ARE A COUPLE. :D

    Ya know? It fits.

    I mean Steve and Bucky are friends and always have been....I don't think they need to anything more or gay. Now note I'm in favor of gay characters VERY MUCH (I write quite a bit of them) but it always felt odd to change someone who has an established sexuality.

    In some cases it can work though very well but something like that would seem kinda forced imo. I mean they've been straight male friends since the start and Cap has known him since he was a kid....well they grew up together in the movies I think but in the comics Steve was like Batman's age and Bucky was Robin's age on the WW2 battlefield.

    They are buddies!

    Wiccan and Hulking on other hand have a good base draw from and its a very secure and romantic relationship. I think that would be a lot better to see overall

    .......of course with the above said

    [​IMG]

    :supercheeky:

    Ya just never knooooooow!
     

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