A Question for Fans of Fantasy

Discussion in 'Discussion of Published Works' started by Irish87, Mar 21, 2010.

  1. Jim224

    Jim224 New Member

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    I'm in the process of trying to write a fantasy epic, and I personally find it really hard to avoid some stereotypes.

    I am certainly going to avoid these ones:

    -Kings and queens, and heirs to the throne. My kingdom operates under a certain type of basic democracy.

    -"The chosen one". None of my main characters, including my main main one are anything extraordinary, chosen, or deemed by some god as the only one capable of carrying out the story's mission.

    -Saving the world from impending doom, by an evil who is destroying it just for the hell of it. I hate that concept. My bad guys are just as dynamic as my good guys, and none of them want to 'destroy the world'. They have a purpose (that is legitimate at least in their mind) to why they are committing bad acts. And their bad acts are definitely not tying to 'destroy the world'.

    -My main hero isn't an excellent fighter. He sold livestock at the market before he 'became' the hero in the story, why the hell would he happen to be an incredible swordsman. Also, i think that makes him even more lovable. He treks on his journey knowing he cannot fight well. After all, courage isn't not being afraid, it is being afraid but trekking onward anyway.


    Now, as for stereotypes that I find hard to not use, well...

    -I for one, love dragons. I am definitely putting them in my story. I am trying to make it realistic though by adding a spin to it, by explaining that there is a big political debate going on about the domestication of dragons, and whether or not it should be legal.

    -The main hero is a man, but I think that is just the way it has to be. I am male, and therefore I can understand the inner workings of my character better if he's also male.

    -It is set in a classical time period. But I wanted it to have a lot of simple beauty, and I think that time period has a lot of capacity for that.
     
  2. Banzai

    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

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    What do you mean by a classical time period?
     
  3. Jim224

    Jim224 New Member

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    pretty much a time where swords and shields are the most common weapon, there are castles, people travel on horses and carriages, and is basically medieval-type era.
     
  4. Perdondaris

    Perdondaris New Member

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    I generally don't count Twilight as fantasy, but I suppose that I can see why one may do so. Otherwise, I generally agree with the complaints most other people seem to have raised here, as well as a lack of good prose. Shakespeare's plots were generally not original, but the execution was brilliant. However, the prose, atmosphere and such seem not to be given all that much attention in most fantasy. The problems with much of modern fantasy can probably be summed up in: the novel is nothing more than the story, and the story is not interesting.

    As for fantasy which I like, what I tend to most appreciate is the building of atmosphere. Dunsany can do this as he wishes, with his prose able to do just about whatever he wishes it to, and has a great sense of humour along with this; indeed, if one wishes to imitate Dunsany's style, one will not be as good, and if one wishes to parody Dunsany's style, his parodies of it are probably still better. Of course, there are also the famously great descriptions of the fields we know. Peake's Titus novels are also quite strong when it comes to evoking atmosphere, as are Clark Ashton Smith's short stories, especially the Zothique cycle. Of course, atmosphere is tied in with the plot, so that the atmosphere of 'The King of Elfland's Daughter' is very different from, say, the Titus books, or Dunsany's own 'Time and the Gods'. This means that even the fairly tiny plot of 'The Abominations of Yondo' allows far more room for atmosphere than the epic journey of the farm boy who goes and finds a dragon or something of the sort and flies off to confront the Evil Lord and win the love of the designated love interest.
     
  5. JTheGreat

    JTheGreat New Member

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    Things I Love in Fantasy:

    • Medieval Settings, because they inspire my own writing.
    • Grey and grey morality. Which means, no character is completely good or completely evil.
    • Mild romances that don't take over the plot like a tumor.
    • Different kinds of fantasy, like ones that dabble in alchemy, or even ones that don't involve much magic at all.
    • Awesome castles. 'Nuff said.
    • Characters who aren't as invulnerable as they seem.

    Things I Really, Really, Really, Really, REALLY Dislike in Fantasy:

    • Invincible characters. Ugh.
    • Black and white morality. In a sense, incorruptible pure pureness vs. dark hooded guys who kick puppies for fun. I like puppies.
    • Magic that has no rules. Or, magic that has so many rules it's hard to understand.
    • Farm boys who rise to fame against their will because they're "The Chosen One".
    • Damsels in distress. If that's all the female characters are good for, no thank you.
     
  6. CaKsTeR

    CaKsTeR New Member

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    This is what I hate most about fantasy. Almost every medieval novel I've read has this cliche theme and frankly, I'm getting tired of reading the same recycled plot over and over. Surely there are other things to write about in fantasy!

    Maybe I'm just reading the wrong types of books.
     
  7. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Read Steven Erikson. Probably the best currently going, and quite different from most of what is out there.
     
  8. macleod0420

    macleod0420 New Member

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    I have loved fantasy since childhood; I am now 32. The reality of fantasy is that every fantasy author ever since Tolkien has been trying to recreate his or her own version of that very same world, with a few exceptions.

    Not that these stories and worlds are all bad, quite the contrary many are very creative and very good, its just that with these types of stories it is very difficult to come up with anything original or never covered before in some other persons imagination.

    The closest I have seen to an almost original fantasy saga is the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan. Jordan does use some of the old cliches but not many and his world is truly original. What makes his series above and beyond the norm is the web of plots that he weaves together almost effortlessly and his amazing abilities at description.

    He is the closest I have seen to the immortal Tolkien, and had Tolkien never been than Jordan would have become the Tolkien of the fantasy world. His recent death is a true tragedy and I only hope that his notes on how the Wheel of Time is supposed to continue and end will be good enough for his chosen replacement.
     
  9. Sabreur

    Sabreur Contributor Contributor

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    To tell the truth, I didn't much care for his Malazan Books of the Fallen series. Didn't really engage me much.
     
  10. khr1996

    khr1996 New Member

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    Ah, but that's the difficulty, isn't it? Many, many stories have been told, from the damsel in distress to the magician without any power. It's a writers dream, or perhaps their ultimate challenge, to create something completely unique. Over and over, we change the damsel so that she saves herself, or maybe change the distress to something emotional. Whatever the alteration, we seem to keep the same basic plot.

    That said, my least favourite fantasy series would have to have been the Cry of the Icemark and it's sequel, the Blade of Fire. The first followed a girls interaction with the son of a deceased witch's son through a war in which they called for a union with various mythical beings, when she took charge after her fathers death. I can't remember whether I didn't like it because it was cliché, over-descriptive or seemed to have a lot of filler scenes, but it was something like that. Maybe it was that Dracula-the-vampire rip off that's been done a million times. I don't know.
    Another book I could never read was the Inkheart series. Inkheart, Inkspell, and Inkdeath. I've never read Inkdeath, and Inkspell was tedious at best. The whole series was a testament to my surprising patience. I say this because I didn't throw it at a wall in irritation.

    On the other hand, Tamora Pierce's writing is nothing if not captivating. I remember reading the last book of 'the Immortals' quartet, The Divine Realms, and throwing it across the room. I had drawn myself into being Daine as I read, and as such was vexed beyond belief when she didn't figure out that Numair loved her; that's the only book I've ever done that for. Tamora writes with just the right amount of description, leaving the book with only vital parts and no scenes that seemed to be added later on due to an impulse. What I really love about her writing is the background of the characters, how she makes them believable. On top of that, I can read Trickster and have characters from earlier works, say The Song of the Lioness, thrown in. For example, the heroine of SotL is the mother of the heroine of Trickster.

    That's my opinion, of course. It's open to debate.
     
  11. Elgaisma

    Elgaisma Contributor Contributor

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    I have been introduced to fantasy by accident lol

    I always liked reading it, I love Dragons of Pern, Terry Pratchett, and others I can't remember right now:) I see Harry Potter as more fairytale than just fantasy. Oh and I love Across the Nightingale Floor. I don't really care how many cliches get used as long as its a good story and that any relationships are kept to a minimum. I am not a huge fan of reading about other peoples sex lives, I remember a period of time when fantasy seemed to require a graphic lesbian relationship to be popular:)

    I started writing fantasy when it became easier for the plot to take my adult thriller mystery and place it on another planet. My character has been chosen lol but he can choose not to answer it, and he was a Prince before he started rather than a farmboy, a previous ancestor of his had so seriously messed up his son had to do the work he needed to do:) I like the story anyway, it does have fighting monks and they wear medieval clothes only because their uniform hasn't changed in centuries:) Not sure if its any good but I am currently pleased with the way my stories are going.

    I am very interested in reading this thread as it helps me to know what to avoid - question is it weird that I have made the book set in what would be the equivalent of 2010 just in a different society? They have laptops, aeroplanes, helicopters, buses and telephones, but not many cars but only because of how their power is produced? They travel most on bus, horseback and bicycles.
     
  12. JTheGreat

    JTheGreat New Member

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    I agree with this. I'm working my way through the Protector of the Small quartet, and the research and care she's put into her fantasy setting is absolutely beautiful.
     

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