So Christians can pick and choose what to believe and still be okay! They'll pull the Ten Commandments and maybe some stories about Noah or whatever from the Old, but ignore some other stuff. And from the New, most of them seem to ignore the parts where it's really better if men don't get married and where illness should be healed by the elders of the church and everyone should give away all of their possessions, etc. And of course, Jesus is come not to destroy the laws of the prophets, but to fulfil, so that's a pretty tight endorsement of the OT, isn't it? I mean, I agree that a lot of the NT contradicts the OT, but that doesn't mean the NT is a book without issues, and it doesn't mean most Christians are following the rules of the NT very closely. Except for when it's suddenly important to some of them to do so.
I did actually once read something written by a Rabbi who explained why lesbianism is not forbidden while male-male relationships are, so it would appear that's a valid interpretation. Anyway I'm sorry to have derailed the thread - it started with my response. Let's get back on topic. There're enough threads in the debate room about homosexuality vs Bible that we don't need to morph this one into that too
Well I created him because there was void in the story that needed to be filled. The time where she is travelling alone is too long also considering her lack of skills, and maturity which has been stunted by her very isolated upbringing, I don´t think its reasonable for her to get from point A to B on her own. I find that my characters take a life of their own once I start writing and they become people that genuinely surprise me. His sexuality just came from me pondering what it would be like to live in that place. Also it takes a lot of courage to leave everything you have ever known. Your family, your religion, your life, for foreign lands that you have been told are filled with disease and pain. This character needs a bigger reason to help MC escape and leave the islands than a simple sense of adventure. Plus he needs to be a criminal to be in the prison to begin with. Privileged is of course relative and in this context privileged means not starving. His family is big enough and own such good farmlands that they can afford to lose one of their sons to the clergy in exchange for increased respectability. Sexuality is going to be come up at some point. The MC is 17 year old and although its not a love story, love in all forms is part of the human condition as is sexual exploration and maturity. I could either never reveal his sexuality but I might actually have to make an effort to avoid putting him in situations where it would be revealed. Or alternatively I could reveal it so late on where the MC is so disillusioned from the norms and values of her upbringing that it isn´t as big of a deal.
Think less America and more a twisted and distorted view of ICELANDIC history, and there have been much more than couple of generations.
Yes, extremely paraphrased. The actual text is "you shall not participate in a pagan man-on-boy prostitution ritual, it is an abomination." King James was not a prophet appointed by God, and his government-approved mistranslations of religious texts do not supersede the originals. Here's a psychological essay explaining why the Old and New Testaments were presented differently, if anybody's interested: http://www.prophecyviewpoint.com/htdocs/kohlberg.pdf
@Shadowfax https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_the_New_Testament I have no idea what you're getting at, but I'm not here to debate against the liberal interpretation, and we shouldn't pretend that the matter is cut and dried. I'm sure that your computer has Google too. @BayView There are a lot of things that seem paradoxical, but most churches are in much closer agreement than one might expect. There most certainly is a "mainstream" doctrine. My advice would be to look at sites that explain scripture from the Christian view, and not just the skeptic's. ETA: @Shadowfax I apologize for insinuating that you're looking for a debate, but my initial impression was that, once again, someone wants to force their impressions of Christianity as the truth whilst having little knowledge of what it is. Some people just want to corner people into making them look like assholes while disregarding the position for those beliefs, so I'm sensitive to those tactics, whether they're real or perceived.
You're Canadian, right? I'd say the mainstream doctrine in Canadian churches is that homosexuality is not a sin - most churches ordain gay clergy, perform gay marriages, etc. Is this not your experience/perception?
I want to make sure we're not talking past each other. Christian doctrine is clear that everyone is a sinner and that people are only redeemed from that only by faith in Jesus, not from stopping sinning. So, in a sense, it's irrelevant whether someone is gay or not, since they are no different from anyone else that isn't saved. That is one principle Christians have to not draw unnecessary attention to their views on homosexuality. Because of exposure to "concepts" like "orientation therapy," "reformed homosexuals," and the phenomenon of Baptism of the Spirit, which is the supernatural ability to follow the law more closely, your average believer has reason to be at least confused about whether saved people can be naturally gay and, thus, if marriage should be permitted by the Church. Aside from the United Church, I'm only aware of the Anglican Church of Canada's ongoing discussion about this: http://www.anglicanjournal.com/articles/same-sex-marriage-vote-in-2016 The Pope's recent comment, "who am I to judge?," is not considered to be as revolutionary as some have interpreted it as, but that's something people can research on their own. My sincere appraisal of the situation is that gay marriage and priesthood are not permitted by most churches in Canada.
SO really, OP, the sexuality of the supporting character is moot. He can be described with feminine traits and characteristics and allude to a not so norm human being, without ever getting on that it is all because sexually he rises to the occasion for his own team. I don't mean to poke, it just seems to me that either he is outright gay and about to be tried and hung, or he isn't gay at all but has no sexual intentions or intuitions and thusly felt that service to god is the best alternative in life than being a father and husband later. Him being gay is still the most interesting thing about him. He is in jail for a crime, but is from a family that owns more land and in turn food? Who's his father? What is his father doing about his son and heirs imprisonment? His mother? What is she doing? His brothers or sisters? If this family is higher on the ladder than others, this family wouldn't stand for this imprisonment unless he was completely disavowed, which in that case him being gay is the only thing doing that. Mostly my goal is to get you thinking less on the homosexual as it is viewed by our own society and cultures and more from the eyes of the culture and society you created. I feel contradictions already exist. Puritans. Scarcity. Isolation. Religious (in this case it would seem fervent). This molds the world, and the personal perspectives of those in the world.
Are you saying your main character isn't morally infallible and has flaws? I dislike the thought that there are "bad" flaws that we cannot give protagonists, makes things much more limiting.
Huge thumbs up to this. There certainly are flaws that need to be framed well if you want the character to be sympathetic but that doesn't mean you shouldn't do them. Be brave. Be bold. Getting the audience on a (seemingly) unsympathetic character's side is a challenge and leads to exciting, interesting writing. Writing in shades of grey, where every character has a mix of good and bad that's really what we should be aspiring to, right? Characters who are complex and engaging who feel like real people and not a cartoon. <deep breath> Now, obviously this is just my opinion. But this is the stuff that I started writing because I loved. I wanted to write 'bad' drug addicts who aren't ashamed and rankle at a society who thinks they should be. I wanted to write that classic 'be any means' evil aspiring politician, then show how sad and empty his home life is. I think everyone should be sympathetic to some degree, even the villains. Even if they're mosters, they are still people. They aren't monstrous when they are making dinner or being nagged by their kid. Look at Hannibal Lector. A psychopath, a cannibal, an unrepentant murderer. But we like him. Because he's refined. Because he only kills people who he thinks are crass and tasteless. And a little part of us kinda sympathizes, right? Everything should be on the table. Be true to the character first and foremost.
I think Im going to set aside the actual writing for a little while. I think I am getting to a road block when it comes to the research that I have done. I need to build the universe better and evolve the characters. I think I am going to really explore this character, the gay one, I think it would be really interesting if not for the story but also a lesson for me in character building. To be completely honest I don't know his motivations, family life ect that well because I hadn't gotten that far yet. It's not that the character is completely empty the issue is that he hasn't been filled yet. I might elevate his place in the story for one particular reason. It would make one of the major relationships and interpersonal conflicts of the MC a friendship rather than a romantic one. I am not writing a love story although romance and love (and sex) will play a part just as it does in everybody's lives. I was going to go for the classic love triangle to some extent but I suspect that this is a much more interesting path. I still haven't decided when (or if) to reveal his sexuality. But to me at least he will always be gay. As to the MC's reaction I don't know, it will be negative but the drama of it will vary on when in the story it is revealed. Perhaps I need to give her more character flaws.
Not just the two Leviticus verses, which are linked together: every single possible reference to homosexuality in the Bible is about men. Female/female sex is never mentioned. Not even once, which would be peculiar if same sex intercourse were universally prohibited, as the Bible is usually explicit in what is and is not permitted. On topic, I don't think it will annihilate the ability to tolerate the character. But it will be something you have to handle delicately. Like so many things, this will depend on the execution.
Would I would do is not have your character's sexuality revealed at all. You can hint here or there to their homosexuality, but never explicitly state it. That way your main character could have suspicions, but can be too afraid to ask because they like this new character and are afraid that if the answer is 'yes', then they would lose a friend. This could be the start of them questioning their own beliefs, and could be what sets them on the path that would lead to their overall growth and change. At the same time, you could have your gay character not even realize that his sexuality is an issue. He could just be so casual about dating or mention an experience in the past so casually, that it's not really a betrayal. Your character has no conception of a world where there are different sexualities. To them it's as normal as someone preferring coffee or tea. All are beverages. He could have no concept of discrimination either. That way he doesn't have to face a 'choice' about 'revealing' anything. There is nothing to reveal, this is just how he is. Maybe this could also be what your MC struggles with. It's something so ahead of their thinking that they can't even comprehend it. This could also be a milestone into having them re-assess their core beliefs. You should do an internet search about "cognitive dissonance". This is the term for the discomfort people feel when they are faced with something that challenges their core beliefs. This will also help your readers root for your MC even if they are homophobic. You can show your readers how your MC is struggling with their core beliefs, sparking a glint of hope for your readers that maybe your MC will change how they feel or think. I imagine that's how you could make a homophobic character likable. Make them flawed, but allow for hope that they can improve/change, and allow your readers to hold onto that hope for the betterment of your character. You would need to make your MC admirable in other ways though. If you make them altogether unpleasant PLUS homophobic, it's going to be hard to get readers on their side. Make them noble in some other way too, so readers can see that there is a good person inside who is capable of good change.
An interesting character with a real flaw that they struggle with? A flaw that paints their every action and thoughts with doubt and conflict? A flaw that will likely polarize and energize the readers into considering their own beliefs, possibly bringing them to question their stances on said belief? That's a winning element in my mind. I personally don't want to read about a thirty-something, 5'9'', 180 lb, white male, agnostic, Staples office clerk who likes listening to the "top ten" station on the radio and deals with his diminishing testosterone levels by watching Friend's reruns. Give me the same guy, but he sprints to work everyday. Give me the same guy, but he's got seven kids he is always worried about. Give me the same guy as a Christian, who finds out his best friend is gay.
I think it would be good to go with the half-truth. He tells her that he is accused of some sexual "indiscretion" or some other wording, your choice, maybe he even admits he is guilty. But he doesn't tell her exactly what, and she maybe assumes he had sex with a woman outside of marriage. I think that gives him relevance and an interesting narrative easily while still preventing the confrontation or any element of it. Then maybe halfway through, it's revealed, and we see her treat him badly. But then later, she is more accepting for whatever reason in whatever way. That's my first thoughts anyway.
I would agree this is the most interesting idea for this scenario - to have one character that is so blasé about something so fundamental to another character creates both an internal and external conflict which is still relevant in the "real" world. I think this is something many readers would be able to relate to on both sides of this particular divide.
