A unique question I kind of feel bad about to ask. (Mature Content)

Yeah, she seem more robotic than happy. She's kind of avoiding emotion. Unless she feels some kind of love for her Alpha? The she'd be happy doing whatever he wants. But if it's just a purpose thing, it's actually a lot like Bradford and Riverton. My god, this is making think of him a lot. I wouldn't have expected this.

 

No! You are going to make me feel bad for her again!!!!

Damn, you make a point. I have been thinking about her a lot lately. And well, one other thing she hates is being left idle. But if she is left idle, that is what she does. I can easily see her just staring at a wall for hours on end, if she was left that way.

But like you said, the reason that would make her unhappy is that thoughts would creep into her head and she doesn't like that. Meaning her blind obediance is her fighting off unhappiness, not gaining happiness.


NOO!!!! Now I feel bad for her again.

 

MUAHAHAHAA!!!
Seriously though, I think even the worst characters should have a sympathy to them, even if it's just for a moment, even if it's just a strong intellectual respect or something.That's how I do it at least. If you don't like feeling conflicted by characters, you might want to avoid my work. I try to do that strongly with quite a few of my characters. Case again in point; Bradford.There's a period where his role is changing and I do hope it confuses the fuck out of people on an emotional level.

 

LOL. Riverton/Bradford are your characters?

Well, I don't think she loves him, but maybe. She would die for him, but that really just fits that whole viewing him as this embodiment of good. She is fiecely angry at anyone who so much as looks at him wrong, but again, simple connection. He is good, thus looking at him wrong is bad.

Her emotions don't carry over. To the point that she practically forgets them the moment they die. To the point that in my story, her current Alpha killed her previous one! Her reaction really kind of would have been like.

"He is my Alpha. I will die protecting him. I will kill you for trying to hurt him-"
He died.

"He isn't my Alpha anymore. A dead man can't be my Alpha. Now you are my Alpha."

And instantly that whole die to protect and kill in his name thing switches to the man she just ten seconds ago was trying to kill. She is a bit weird isn't she?

 

Okay, that's definitely robotic and definitely a serious personality disorders. Aspergers has nothing on this shit.

 

Well, I am not against tradgety, but it is about balance. Actually a lot of my work has characters with horrible backstories.

But I love that, because the point becomes them growing out of it or overcoming it or otherwise becoming stronger because of it.

That isn't the case with her. There is no fixing her, and her brain is defective and she was born that way, to the point as a small child she probably assigned her mother or father as her first Alpha. She didn't break, she was born this way and can't really be cured. I mean, even if she was suddenly cured. Imagine how hard that would be for her? To have spent her entire life up to this point fixed like that?

Also generally it is about blance. In one of my stories, a side character had her niece, her mother and father die. And her husband was an abusive jerk. On reflection, I felt I took it too far and made her husband nice. Know what I mean?

 

Yeah, hence me feeling bad for her.

Funny enough, you are the first one that has related her to a robot. Most relate her to being like a dog.

 

I'd have to say no, it's not rape, and here's why. I feel like I'm gonna get a lot of people fighting me on this, but it's just the way I thought about it.

It's not against her will I suppose. If she outright said no and they did it anyway, that would be rape, obviously. She is consenting. Her agreeing, is giving consent. So, in my own eyes, it looks like a personal struggle and not a foul on any of the others' parts. However, she may be a victim of Manipulation, which isn't rape per se, it's just taking advantage of someone which is by all means wrong, but not by the name "rape". A no-no on their part. Regardless, she's willingly giving consent... and she's sober.

Also, "unaffected mind" would mean sobriety, not a mental handicap or disorder. If I were to sleep with some person and not know about their mental handicap, am I a rapist? Even if I did know about it, and she's giving consent, am I just supposed to stay away until the disorder is cured? That's not cool either; we've been told our whole lives that people with mental handicaps/disorders are to be treated as we are. Equal. So, still I wouldn't consider it rape. And even if the thought is "no" the whole time she serves Alpha, she's not giving any visible signs that she does not want it to happen. Consenting out of fear is rape of some kind, sure. This woman is not consenting out of fear.

I'd say a kind of obsession she has that she finds fulfillment from somehow. And if at one point she says yes and can't stop, or catches on and doesn't like how submissive she is... Well, I mean, just because you say yes and regret it doesn't mean it's rape either. Just a bad, bad decision.

So in the end, I'd say she'd have a problem with Obsession. A coping mechanism maybe. If Alpha's the one you want to blame, it would be because of manipulation, the closest relative to rape, but only you would truly know if that's the case. Man, I feel bad I fall into the same category as all those guys that say it isn't rape. Oh well. Sorry about that.

 

A thread is meant to be a place to discuss ideas. So your opinion is welcomed. I don't have much to say, having been torn on the position and opening the thread as a result. I just hope the others see it and reply.

Though, it sounded like the main position of the others was that her handicap prevents her from being able to give consent.

You addressed this only partially. Because some handicaps would and I think do actually prevent people from being able to give consent. If a girl or guy in a sense doesn't understand what sex is for example and has to live under the care of someone because they are deemed unable to care for themselves. I think we could see how they aren't able to really provide consent.

But then again, my girl here is capible of taking care of herself. So if you are arguing you think she is well enough to give consent that is a fine position. I guess I had a bit of a reply in me after all.

 

Well, I didn't feel I had to take into account those who aren't able to care for themselves. From my understanding of this woman, it's not like that. But of course some handicaps do mean they can't consent, but she's a functioning human with a dent in her brain, but I mean, we all do in our own ways. That's what makes good characters, hm? You said yourself how this issue started tugging on those heart strings.

Lol, if I said everything was fair game no matter what the handicap, well... mute people would be the loophole wouldn't it? "They never said 'no'!"

Thank you for listening, though!

 

Yeah, I guess if the fundental idea is where we cut the line. There is really no place to argue from.

I am thinking of how @ChickenFreak said it. Being, if I recall the phrasing correctly. Someone who doesn't understand how to say no can't really offer consent. Because to her there is no option.

 

Dog works but dog has emotional connection to you; you're the pack, the family. Despite us calling ourselves "owners", urgh, they seem to have an emotional connection as far as humans can figure out. I have a dog, and he certainly acts like that. He goes ballistic when we get home. He acts mopey when we leave. He sticks to us whenever we leaves the house. He tries to get us to play with him all the time. He gets jealous when we hold babies. That sounds familial to me.
While as a robot works on logic rules. Computers don't think like humans. Computers are the kind of thing that would think like this girl. Input=output. Programmed rigid responses.

 

Hm... well, I don't even have a real answer to that one. I guess all I could say is that if a person has the choice between yes and no, they have just that: A choice. No isn't consent, yes is.

Having only one possible answer to the question eliminates any choice at all and is coming around to that obsession thing I was talking about. It's something she feels like she has to do, and her personal feelings on the matter are her own struggles that deem it what it truly is. She could obviously feel intense regret from it, but I believe she's had four Alphas in the past, so she's clearly accustomed to this way of thought. But, I mean... she still isn't saying no. That's the gray area. So much gray!! You'd have to do it justice through your writing. You'll have to be that window into her mind that tells us if she's accepted the obsession, if she hasn't, if she's truly even aware of it, or even capable of being aware of it.

 

Personality disorders in general aren't my point. My point was this disorders is very consent related so I think it would equivalent to being drunk. If you are not in a right state of mind, you wouldn't consider yourself to be making binding decisions would you? Do you think alcohol doesn't affect your behaviour?And I don't think it would be rape if you truly didn't know. Ask a legal expert for that. They're the decider.

 

Funny enough, one aspect I mentioned shoves her right into the middle here. She gets angry when someone insults her Alpha. Which for one it is an emotion, and for two, it is an emotion I could see a dog having.

But maybe I am wrong, it still dials back to the same cold logic. Her Alpha is good, so attacks against her Alpha are bad. Period.

 

What kind of people are these Alphas? If you've got fundamentally selfish characters owning her, it may not even matter whether it's rape--that's not how they'd think. If you've got characters owning her who actually want to help her, and they order her to have sex with them, I'd probably stop reading and give your book a bad review.

 

Yes. I'm not saying every antagonist should have a sob story. Just that they should be capable of producing more than one feeling about them, that they have layers. Even if they're a demented sadist or a selfish manipulator, there are ways to be more interesting than the vaudeville mustache twirling Bond villain. This character has a lot of potential to be more than that. She could very emotional for the reader. Or intellectually stimulating. Or both.

 

Oh, uh. I am not sure. I only have one Alpha developed and he never has sex with her. I was more reflecting on the fact that I make a point of saying she has had more than one Alpha and I just can't help but imagine well.

Take a girl that will literally do almost anything for her Alpha. Have a random male Alpha. .... Yeah, assuming sex was involved. Not saying every Alpha had sex with her from dawn to dusk. I mean, I even pointed out her main Alpha never had sex with her. Just figured, if she had multiple Alphas,, which she did. Then the odds of one not taking sexual advantage of her seems unlikely

Wanna know another messed up part? She is actually stronger than most of her Alphas. Because, like you were asking what kind of people they were. Random. She basically imprints on the first person she sees but re-imprints in the event that her Alpha dies. So often her next Alpha will have killed her previous one. But in either case, most of the time, she is stronger than the people she serves. And by stronger, I mean like in every way. Physically stronger, faster or able to fight better. I find that ironic.

Oh yeah. I agree. I hope she is. But are you saying, she has to out grow her issue to be those things? I am not sure I agree if that is what you are saying?

 

She doesn't necessarily. But I think it would be poignant to explore the condition in some way, play with it or introduce new perspectives on it, and the lack of doubt screams "introduce doubt!" So I would probably have her at least consider the idea she's wrong.

 

Slavery is one of those concepts where if you introduce it into your setting, you pretty much have to comment on it in some way. It's so far outside what your typical reader will consider acceptable that if you just throw it out there without any discussion, your story will feel incomplete.

(I once read a My Little Pony fanfic that had dragons enslaving ponies. It portrayed ponies as innately deferential to dragons and dragons as innately dominant over ponies. Every time someone criticized this in the comments, the author assumed they were objecting to the existence of slavery in the setting, and he thought that was stupid because slavery exists in real life. He didn't seem to get that people were objecting to how he'd normalized and excused slavery as natural and inevitable within the setting.)

 

I was more talking about the interest of exploring her condition. But that's a point too. Though, I think being too judgemental is an obstacle for meaning. I like to make it so there's always some sense of neutrality. Just a little bit of "you decide" sometimes a lot.

 

Yes and no. I mean her condition is fine with considering her wrong. It is her Alpha that she can't consider wrong. And as mentioned, to the point of smashing her head against the wall if it even creeps in a little. How do you push that concept more? lol

But the trick in this case is it isn't a race of slaves or a giant slavery ring. It is one girl who mental handicap only lets her view herself as a slave. I am not sure how deep I can dive into that. I mean, does that make sense?

 

Just because she is unable to say no doesn't mean she doesn't what to say no, so she wouldn't always be happy. In fact I'd imagine she'd have severe depression and feelings of shame especially after the supposed consent.

 

I am not sure how many of the posts you read. So maybe you missed one explaining it better, but even based on the one you quoted. I am not sure I follow your line of logic here.

I mean in the post you quoted it said that she would murder her own parents instantly if commanded to by her Alpha. And I made a point to say that it isn't like she is locked in and forced to watch herself listen. I said that she would do it because the moment her Alpha wanted her parents dead is the moment she would think they should die. Like, his disapproval meant they were evil and the very act of them breathing was a sin against the god she considers her Alpha.

Not to say you can't have an opinion. I love alternate opinions. I just kind of need a bit more detail here on how you would imagine that she would have shame and depression for upholding the view of what she considers god?

 

I'm basing primarily off of what you said in the OP that she is unable to say no. Never in the OP was there mention of her actually being happy or wanting to do what was asked or commanded of her. So with that in mind it should be basic psychology that doing something she does not want would have an effect on her state of mind. The effect would certainly be negative. Forcibly having sex (or simply unable to not consent) would cause feeling of shame. Just imagine. Someone wants to have sex with a girl (I'd say for example you simply to put it in a more personal way), but she (you) does (do) not want to, but is (are) incapable of denying the male. Now, I may be wrong, but it is commonly thought (and very logical) that this is especially for a girl as making her vulnerable. There is a connection between vulnerability and shame.

I realize you added on to your character's disorder to the point that she seems apathetic, but could it not be that her actions are apathetic and her emotions depressed? You say black and white thinking and quick changes in opinion. Perhaps you should read up on BPD (Boderline Personality Disorder).