There haven't been any butterflies or spiders or moths mentioned either, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. It wasn't explicitly mentioned in Game of Thrones or Lord of the Rings that all of the characters therein wore underwear, but we can safely assume that most do. The way I see an epic story like this one is like an iceberg: only a small portion of the iceberg is visible above the water, but there's a massive amount of ice invisible underneath the waves. Similarly, what's talked about explicitly in the story (the visible part of the iceberg) is not necessarily all that is there. I've said multiple times that the Immortal Legions is not comprised of all spirits that exist; rather, there are a multitude of spirits that exist in this world and some of them happen to choose to join. Most others do their own thing, so there's really no reason to talk about what they're doing within the scope of this story since they have no impact upon it most of the time. The whole idea is based on animistic religions where every tree, every animal, even every blade of grass has its own naturalistic spirit associated with it. Considering that there are so many of these animistic spirits, similar to those traditions upon which the idea is based, and the Immortal Legions is a small percentage of that, it is, as I've said, hard for me to believe that when a spirit is doing something, someone can realistically assume automatically that the spirit is doing it at the behest of Yurius rather than for some reason of his or her own. Yurius is not that influential among the larger world of spirits aside from being the leader of their largest organized group. I do understand that the stories that people tell themselves might be different from reality, especially when they're hurt or afraid or have a grudge or a prejudice against another person or another group. Given that the threat at hand is very visible and very obvious, however--Angry Dark Spirits--I fail to understand why they would, instead of assuming that what is actually attacking them is the root of their problem, suddenly decide Yurius, whom they have no apparent reason to believe is related to the attacking spirits in any way (since Yurius is not associated with most spirits, only the ones in his army), is a threat that now needs to be removed in light of said problem. The spirits attacking them are the threat, not Yurius, and I really don't think they have a compelling reason to think otherwise. In any case, none of this disagreement really matters in the long run. Write what you will and, as always, it's all in good fun.
Actually, I can see a really good reason why they'd decide that it was Yurius. Sure, there are plenty of free spirits, but most spirits you see belong to the immortal legions. So if spirits attack a certain place, it makes sense that the inhabitants there will blame Yurius. Especially if they've been taught inaccurate things about him by Khaline's diciples.
I disagree that "most spirits" one could encounter are members of the legions. Most spirits are unaffiliated and serve no interests but their own. I do agree that they might think it was him if they were misled by Khaline or her disciples, though. In fact, it's pretty unlikely any spirits that Spartalios Simians encounter would be legions spirits as opposed to unaffiliated ones. Yurius has no reason to send his men there after the ritual was complete, so they have no reason to be there.
You do realise that Khaline's people don't know about the ritual? There aren't people running up and down the continent shouting news, and trade, while reoccurring, is not common and mostly insular. They're more akin to Germanic tribes than anything. Protokingdoms essentially. And no, I don't assume that the characters from game of thrones are wearing underwear because the technology and culture vary between the twelfth and sixteenth century for armour and clothing, periods where most people did not wear underwear. The vast, vast majority of people will operate under the idea that the day to day living is equivalent to the time period it's analogous to unless stated otherwise. We do not have spirits in the real world, so there's no analogy for me to go for. And the fact that no other spirts have interacted with the gods for a period of near 600 years, apart from Yurius's followers, suggested that there were none. Doubly so considering the legion has done nothing itself without Yurius's orders. Not to mention, why would a group of spirits attack an entire continent's worth of people, who are only bound by their worship of Khaline? Unless someone had a grudge aginst her, and that only leave Yurius, and those who follow Yurius's orders. Also, post updated.
I did make note in my original template that they were pantheistic spirits of trees and such, though one can't be faulted for missing the admittedly weak implication that there are more that exist than just the Legions, though that was my intention from the start. Although, in a later post where I lay out all the different types of spirit that exist (so far), I DID specifically mention that there are more than just the Legions and I even invited everyone to add to the list or use the spirits in their own writing if they chose. That said, I apologize for any lack of clarity about the hierarchy and number of spirits in the universe. As to your last question, why would a group of spirits attack Khaline's followers, they're attacking because they're pissed they were under her control for so long against their wills. She set them to guarding these folk and in retribution they're now destroying them to get to her. Now, from the perspective of the tribesmen, they may not know this if they didn't know about Khaline's control of the spirits that protected them. All they would know, in that case, is that one day, overnight, they changed appearance, stopped protecting them, and started attacking. My question, in that case, is why would they see these once-protecting spirits attacking and immediately think about SOMEONE ELSE'S grudge against Khaline or her people, even though that person is no where near and hasn't been in a long time? Wouldn't it be more realistic if they see these spirits attacking and then think "I don't know why they're attacking" or "They must have some reason they're so angry all of a sudden, what'd we do to piss them off" rather than "Oh, the spirits are attacking. Must be because Yurius, who has had nothing to do with us in years beyond when some apostate prays to him in desperation, who's two continents away, has a grudge?" It seems random to bring up Yurius in that context. It makes more sense to me if they see the spirits and then try to think about why the spirits would attack rather than immediately think this must be because Yurius ordered them to. Spirits are really their own entities, the same way citizens and royalty of Stonebow and Long Tooth and people of Khaline's Tribes are their own entities. They often do things for their own character reasons, not just because Yurius or Khaline or anyone told them to do it. ...For anyone interested, it turns out that many people did, in fact, wear underwear in the middle ages. (http://www.historyextra.com/lingerie) (https://www.thoughtco.com/medieval-underwear-1788621) That's a Google search I never thought I'd have to perform. ...although it's really beside the point I was originally trying to make, which was that just because something is not explicitly said in a story doesn't mean it isn't there.
"Everyone in a group that this person dislikes is being attacked, by tools that the person commonly uses, it was probably them." "I have no idea why you'd think it was that person." This is what you are arguing.
Imagine it was a group of Simians from another continent instead doing the killing. Would the following argument make sense? "Everyone in a group that Queen Jard, the Queen of Stonebow City, dislikes is being attacked. They're being attacked by tools that she would commonly use (Simians). Therefore, it was probably her who ordered these Simians to attack the group." Is that a valid conclusion? I would argue not. Honestly, it would seem kind of random to even bring up Jard in this scenario because there's no visible evidence to suggest a connection between her and the attacking force. Some Simians follow the queen of Stonebow's orders, but does that really mean that if a Simian force attacks a group she dislikes, it follows automatically that she ordered it done? I think the flaw in that argument is the assumption that all Simians do what they do because someone ordered it and the Simians are nothing but tools, but this obviously is not the case. The Simians of Rephlon are many and varied and they all have separate reasons for doing what they do that are often (though not always) unconnected to a person who rules a small faction of them. If they were being attacked by Simians, the more rational course of action would be to address the Simians themselves: Who are they? What do they want? Why are they attacking? How do we address this problem? It would not be rational to look at their attacks and, based on no information whatsoever other than their species, assume immediately that a particular person ordered them to do it. It would be a similar flaw in logic to assume that all spirits do what they do because someone ordered it. They do not. Just like you cannot draw conclusions about why the Simians are attacking just based on who they are, you cannot draw conclusions about why Spirits are attacking just based on who they are. They are not as one-dimensional as simply being the tools of one God or another the same way the Simians are not as one-dimensional as being the tools of the kings and queens who rule their various nations or the Gods they choose to worship.
Yes, but it's much more specific than people. The fact that no one else seems to have interacted with a spirit in the entire story suggests that they're pretty relusive, so the argument goes like this: "Our city, that queen jard hates, are being attacked by people wearing the armour of queen jard's guard while wielding blades with her family crest on."# "Totally not queen Jard." And once again, all of this is relying on people to be logical, after there has just been a mass slaughter. You have a different view of how the world this RP works in as both myself and the GM, and that's okay, but I am writing about how the people that follow the goddess I made will react.
If the spirits attacking had identifying markers pointing to their origin, that would be visible evidence linking them to Yurius, so I would agree that it would make sense for them to come to the conclusion that Yurius ordered the attack. They don't have crests or markers, so I completely disagree that your scenario is a more accurate analogy than the one I presented. I'm not saying they have to be completely logical. I'm pointing out that I don't think it's even realistic that Yurius's name should come up at all in this situation. No one would look at a group of attacking Simians, with no identifying crests or markers, and jump to the conclusion that a particular person ordered them to do it. How could they? They know nothing about the attackers other than their species. It would be weird, therefore, even for people who are not totally in their right minds, to draw such specific assumptions (they are part of an army (as opposed to bandits or a religious cult), they are from Stonebow (as opposed to Long Tooth Forest), the Queen ordered this attack) with no apparent reason to do so. Similarly, I find it weird for them to draw specific conclusions about the Spirits' motivations, specifically that they're part of the Immortal Legions and, moreover, are acting on Yurius's orders, when they don't know anything about the Spirits other than that they're Spirits. What reason would they have to bring up Yurius here if all they know is they have a group of spirits attacking them? Said spirits could be attacking for any number of reasons; there's nothing in the attack itself that should lead them to believe Yurius had anything to do with it. As I've said before, I know that you will write what you will. Please, go right ahead and I'll work with you regardless of my opinions. That doesn't mean I won't point it out when I think something doesn't make any sense, though.
Name another entity that has a grudge against Khaline, and a relation to spirits, that is not a spirit?
But that's the thing though. Why should the victims assume the Spirits are attacking on behalf of someone else with a grudge? They have no reason to think that's the case.
That was hilarious. Just so I'm sure, I want to make sure I understand what happened there. The Imperial Forces staged an attack on the Outpost Fortress to keep the forces there occupied, and then attacked the portal between the Southern Rephlonian Sea and the Ignus Ocean while it was relatively under-defended. Is that right? So what they have possession of now is the portal and the Fortress in the Northern Rephlonian Ocean, but the Oupost Fortress is still under Freeswimmer control. Do I have all that right?
Almost. All they have is control of the portal, it's in the south Rephlonian sea... The Toothed are in the north Rephlonian sea and trapped in their fortress. Also, make sure you read my edit. All it is is teo lines added atthe end of the post
Because the only thing that unites the three coalitions is Khaline. Meaning that whoever is doing it is somehow angry at Khaline, and the only spirts which have notable interacted with the world have been under Yurius's orders.
Right, fine, someone's mad at them, but why do the victims need to assume they're attacking on behalf of SOMEONE ELSE with a grudge? When someone punches me in the face, I don't draw the conclusion that they're punching me on behalf of someone else who has a problem with me unless I have explicit reasons to believe that (i.e., "The Lannisters send their regards" or something). It would be really weird for me to make that leap in logic. I assume that they're angry at me all on their own until I have a reason to think otherwise. So it is here. The spirits are attacking. And in response to this attack, the victims blame...Yurius? Doesn't it make a whole lot more sense to assume, from the getgo, that the Spirits have their own reasons to be angry and attack them? That's how it seems to me. Hell, the spirits aren't mute; they can communicate. If the victims were to do some reconnaissance or some questioning, they'd probably find out pretty quickly straight from the horse's own mouth that the spirits are attacking because they're angry at Khaline and Yurius has nothing to do with any of it outside of freeing them from her control. From the Spirits' perspective, they'd probably want the victims to know that anyway so that word would spread to Khaline herself and SHE would know the reason they were pissed. All of which would make their years-long vengeance scheme on Yurius seem kind of pointless. It really seems like we're going in circles here repeating ourselves. We might have to agree to disagree on this or we'll be chasing our own tails for days. Like I said, write what you like to write and I'll work with you even if we disagree on something.
You have mean the horse's mouth that is across the ocean or on another planet? And I am annoyed because I am having to say the samething over and and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again. We have literally never seen the spirits do anything large scale outside the control of Yurius. The Spirit's did a large scale attack against Yurius's enemies. Can you not see the basic connection there? I keep on answering your questions with the same argument, and you're giving the same counter argument, that i keep on saying doesn't work after explaining why.
I mean the horses' mouths that are still infesting their continent. They're not shy. Most of them will say loud and clear why they're attacking, especially if they know the message will reach Khaline's ears. You keep saying the spirits don't do anything outside Yurius's control, and I keep telling you in return, yes they do. They are not Yurius's puppets. They are not tools that belong to him. They have their own agendas, their own characters, their own motivations. You respond that we don't see it explicitly talked about, except where Yurius is concerned. I respond that this does not mean that other spirits, outside of the Legions, are not present (see: iceberg/elven underwear metaphor). They are present, and they aren't just sitting around doing nothing (not all of them, anyway). There are spirits of the stars, of rain, of grass, of trees, of animals, of earth and oceans and rivers and mountains and lightning and fire and wind and all kinds of other things. There are a great many more of them than what choose to join the legions. They inhabit this universe. They inhabit Khaline's continent in just as many numbers as they do all the others. They all have different feelings regarding mortals; some want nothing to do with them, some get angry at them, some want to help them. Just knowing that some spirits are angry and attacking Khaline's people does not tell them WHY they're angry or WHY they're attacking and the fact that they are spirits certainly does not by itself give the tribesmen a reason to think that Yurius told them to do anything.
I said name one time that they had done anything on this scale out of Yurius's control before, and you did not answer the question, because there is no answer. BECAUSE THEY HAVE NEVER DONE ANYTHING ON THAT SCALE OUTSIDE OF YURIUS'S CONTROL And I'm sorry, I didn't know that they were running around the continent shouting "We, a group of dark spirits acting freely and independently of our former master, are attacking you in an attempt to offend your master. We know our old boss and your current one doesn't get along, but that has no real bearing on what we're doing right now." Now, if you want to go back, and write out some more detail of the invasion, like I did of Khaline's prison break, which was on a much smaller scale, then you can. I'd be happy with that, it would give me more to work with, but you cannot complain at me, or deciding details, when you gave me nothing to work with. So either write that post, or realise that you are the only one in this thread that does not understand why they would think it's Yurius.
There's really no need to be angry. It's just a game. This is kind of why it probably would've been better to quit this conversation earlier. I'll grant you it's activity on a larger scale than has been described before, but still, it's not a reason to suspect Yurius ordered them to do it. Given the number of spirits and given the variety of their motivations for doing things, I still think it's more sensible to assume the spirits are attacking for some unknown reason of their own as opposed to being ordered to do it on behalf of someone else. That's my opinion. I'll concede that I think Yurius's name might come up in a conversation about possible reasons for the attack, but I still don't think they'd jump so wholeheartedly to that conclusion right from the getgo when there are so many other possibilities when it comes to spirits. Also, to be fair, Yurius really hasn't ordered spirits who follow him to perform an offensive strike on that scale either, besides the attack on Oblivion. He doesn't really order his men to attack people without a reason, especially not mortals. Mostly he orders them to defend things (as with the prison camp), serve as escorts or guards (as when he was confronted by Realiti in ~300), or perform tasks too onerous for one person to complete (like making giant continent-sized rings of salt). The only other example I can think of of him actually ordering an offensive strike is the civil war between the Ferrous Kingdoms and the Simian Empire in the 330s, where spirits from his army showed up to support one mortal army or another, though I didn't actually write that part nor was he written explicitly ordering an attack. I never said the Dark Spirits were running around shouting anything. I said that, if asked, they would not be shy about giving their reasons for doing what they do. Granted, they'd also be likely to kill whoever asked out of spite, but any survivors they allow to escape would be pretty likely to know what was up. Aside from asking directly, they also might monitor them from a safe distance to try and ascertain what they're doing and why. And to be clear, Yurius actually didn't order these Dark Spirits to do anything. Just in case anyone was curious. I'm sorry if this has annoyed you. It really wasn't intended to, nor was I trying to dictate to you what to write. I just like discussing details.
You're saying the narrative of what I wrote makes no sense, in a piece of a post that is attempting to drive the narrative, essentially saying that it has no value, or no place in the RP.
@MagicPenguin Hey I think you misread, the Empire's army didn't go near the northern fortress at all. They attacked the outpost, as a diversion to get the portal. And about the argument, it really seems plausible to me that people can mistake attacking spirits to belong to Yurius, especially in a very Khaline-influenced area like Spartalios.
Okay, I took out references to the Toothless army besieging the Northern Fortress as anything but a possibility.
