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Advice to writers.... or is it?

Discussion in 'Insights & Inspiration' started by DeadMoon, Jun 18, 2016.

  1. Wolf Daemon

    Wolf Daemon Active Member

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    Which again you are talking about the more "complex" or the added other skills from Novels and NOT the basics. Read my last post.
     
  2. BayView

    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    Okay. Maybe you just started writing fiction at a more basic level than I did. For me, shorts wouldn't have helped. I wouldn't have learned much and I wouldn't have enjoyed writing them.

    Again, though, if they helped you, that's great.
     
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  3. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    *head - desk - connecting*

    After doing this on an off since I was 15, (I'm now 43) I'm about to release my third book, second novel.

    First book - nonfic - 80 pages.
    Second book - fic - 470 odd pages.
    Third book - fic - 511 pages.

    I think I've passed the point of wanting starting tools.

    Whatever you write, in whatever genre/type, there are differences and similarities. Some transfer from one to another, some don't but being good at one does not mean that you will be good at others.

    Some people can do it all, some are good at one or two things and some are good at just one. What I'm saying, is do not be put off doing what you want to do by "practicing" on other forms of writing. If you want to write novels, write novels. Learn as you go, find good beta readers, write the story you want to write. If you want to write shorts, write shorts. Just don't think you have to start on one thing before progressing to another, because you don't.
     
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  4. BayView

    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    I do like the part of the OP about being prolific, if at all possible.

    I'm not sure it always is possible, but if it is, I think it definitely helps. More words are more opportunity for learning, whether they're words of a novel or a short.
     
    deadrats likes this.
  5. Wolf Daemon

    Wolf Daemon Active Member

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    Then you're argument is moot. We are discussing whether this is good for new, coming to be authors. Not someone who has been doing it for a long time.

    And Short Shorts and Novels are in the same class as each other so they aren't really "different forms of writing" they are one in the same with the same rules, they are prose.

    If we were arguing prose vs news reporting or poetry then you may have a leg to stand on but you don't.
     
    hawls likes this.
  6. Spencer1990

    Spencer1990 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Nope. Not even a little bit true. Novels and short stories are as different as novels and screenplays or screenplays and shorts. They each require skills unique to the mediums respectively.

    I'll say that they are related in the sentences and grammar vein, but it doesn't go much further than that.
     
  7. Wolf Daemon

    Wolf Daemon Active Member

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    I'm really not sure if you're serious right now but I really hope you're not. Because that would be kind of upsetting and sad.
     
  8. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    No, shorts and novels are not the same.

    Why would my argument be moot just because I'm not a new author? Have things changed from when I started out writing?

    The point I was making, is that each arm of writing and each genre has its own way of construction and "having" to start with shorts before you can progress onto novels is not true. You don't "have" to do that.
     
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  9. BayView

    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    You've already tried this rhetorical cheat once in this thread... it was cheap the first time, and it's "upsetting and sad" to see you trying the same stunt again.

    Argue the points or walk away, but don't pull this crap.
     
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  10. Spencer1990

    Spencer1990 Contributing Member Contributor

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    To me, sad and upsetting is when critical evaluation of ideas devolves into useless retorts. Saying novels and short stories are the same is equal to saying journalism and poetry are the same. They both use sentences, so they must require the exact same skills, right? But wait, they are totally different mediums with different purposes and different skills. Same goes for short stories and novels. Different mediums. Sad and upsetting is how limited your ideas about writing are.
     
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  11. Wolf Daemon

    Wolf Daemon Active Member

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    I am arguing my point but seems you few don't really have anything to argue against except "It's not the same!" which I have disproved over and over again. So I am waiting for an actual discussion or argument if you will. Until then your points are quite moot and wrong. So again, I am waiting.
     
  12. izzybot

    izzybot Human Disaster Contributor

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    Anyone else getting some deja vu?
     
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  13. Wolf Daemon

    Wolf Daemon Active Member

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    Yes, people keep saying the same things over and over again after they have been disproved and get upset when I am waiting for an actual argument. You people are very bad at that it seems.
     
  14. Spencer1990

    Spencer1990 Contributing Member Contributor

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    It's surreal. I'm still contending that someone may be a really dedicated troll.
     
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  15. BayView

    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    The trolliness is strong.

    The "ignore" button is calling to me...
     
  16. Wolf Daemon

    Wolf Daemon Active Member

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    Deja Vu, someone who can't back up his argument and insists the person proving him wrong is a troll.

    I feel sick at the thought of what the writing world would be with people like you at the head of it. Nobody reading anymore, everybody having no direction when they DO write and lacking voice, and titles simply put as "bob" or "sarah". Uhg. Makes me shiver.
     
  17. Spencer1990

    Spencer1990 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Lmao! Just out of curiosity, how old are you?

    These are some pretty baseless and hypocritical accusations.
     
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  18. Spencer1990

    Spencer1990 Contributing Member Contributor

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    but...but...entertainment!
     
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  19. BayView

    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    That's what's kept me around so far. But at some point, it gets old...
     
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  20. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    I don't need to prove or disprove anything.

    There are countless authors out there who started with shorts and countless more who started in journalism before venturing into writing novels. And then there are those who started with fan fiction, and oh yeah, those who went straight into writing novels. There are ones who started with comic books and indeed, they staid with comic books and there are ones who went from writing novels to writing scrips. And yes, there are even some who write novels AND short stories! Wowee!

    My point - yet again - is this:

    You don't need to start your writing career by getting good at shorts before progressing onto novels.

    It's not like they give you a "short story" badge for your swimming costume before letting you join the older kids in the novel pool.

    Oh, and, just to add on the differences/similarities thing, all stories have the basics. Characters, setting, some kind of plot, a start, middle and some kind of ending, (happy or sad, doesn't really matter) and that's it. Look at any story/article/script/whatever, and you will find those basics. And then for every different genre/type, things change. In a massive way.
     
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  21. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    And what you wrote there, is just downright nasty and insulting.
     
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  22. Spencer1990

    Spencer1990 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Can you please quote the posts in which you've proved anyone wrong? I must have missed those. Poor eyesight be damned!
     
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  23. Wolf Daemon

    Wolf Daemon Active Member

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    What I wrote there was the truth. It makes me feel upset. But I am glad that is not the case :)
     
  24. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    No, it was as far from the truth as you can get.
     
  25. hawls

    hawls Active Member

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    @BayView, you made a point a while back (too exhausted by everything I've read since to go back and quote it properly so forgive any misunderstanding) about unlearning skills for writing short stories before attempting novels.

    I'm wondering if it would not be preferable to understand what is required for a short story and what is required for a novel and to know the how, why and when to use these particular techniques? Wouldn't being able to recognize and distinguish between the unique elements of a short story and the unique elements of a novel and how, why and when to apply them serve you far better than disregarding what you already know and compiling a separate set of skills?

    A musician doesn't unlearn the skills and theory they developed playing classical music just to play or compose in jazz, or rock, or techno.

    Like a student with a natural ear for music, you must have had a natural mind for writing. Some people don't have this kind of intuitive understanding. There are hundreds of now famous musicians and artists who had to study the theory and the purely technical aspects of their crafts ad nauseum just to keep up with their naturally talented peers.

    I'd rather know how to properly apply what I've learnt while learning more new things than be told to forget what I know.
     

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