All you women/girls out there - quick question

This man almost totally believes you. Except that more than once I have heard a female friend say something like, "A man must have written that. A woman would never do/say/feel that." But then, maybe they are really saying, "An untalented stereotyping man must have written that."

 

I'll try not to overlap Moose's excellent list, but a few more things to watch out for:

Women only existing to support male characters. This is thankfully not as common as it once was, but still quite common. The female characters exist only to provide emotional support to the male lead, or a traumatic backstory for the male lead, or a reward at the end of the story for the male lead. Now, having a woman who is supportive is not a bad thing, it's when all or most female characters are only there to prop up the men and don't actually progress the story themselves it becomes a problem.

Strong= Masculine. This one is still pretty common, writers attempting to write strong female characters by making them more stereotypically masculine. The idea that stereotypically feminine traits, hobbies, likes, etc, are inherently weaker is pretty pervasive and can be really harmful. Again, there isn't anything wrong with writing a badass female character with more stereotypically masculine traits, but it is refreshing to see a genuinely strong female character who doesn't reject everything feminine, or whose feminine traits are her strengths.

'The Chick'. This is a very specific one to round off my list, but still fairly common. You have a cast of almost all guys and one girl. That girl's defining characteristic is...being a girl, I guess? 'The Chick' is a common member of the five-man band, for example. All the other members (Leader, lancer, the smart one, the big guy) all have defined roles and skills, while the chick is just... a girl. Token 'Chicks' are almost always bland, like with other token characters.

 

I do have to comment here; the trope of intelligence = strength matches settings pretty well where patriarchal values still exist / where women are present in historical roles. ASOIAF plays this quite well, and so did our own very history - My personal favourite for "powerful" female characters is one that does not simply outgun or outmuscle others, but carries influence and wields it in a tactful, intelligent way that furthers her agenda. I don't mind if they wield a sword now-and-then, but I generally perceive characters with projected power / a circle of influence as far more powerful than a superhero who can lift cars. The true power in this sort of "powerful" female character is that they can remain wholly feminine and that femininity will not carry much influence on their actions or methods.

 

The worst version of this is the women who only exist to be killed to motivate the male character. And I think the worst version of that was in the film The Man with the Iron Fists, when he was already highly motivated and fighting the bad guy, and 10 min from time they kill off the love interest, so that he becomes… highly motivated and is fighting the bad guy.

 

I don't know where the conversation went since this first post, but I find the first post interesting.

Currently, it's not having any real struggles aside from society. I will state that in the past, society has been horrible to women. I'm by no means denying that not having the right to vote, read, or even hold a job wasn't terrible. But it isn't the only obstacle that women face.

Like with any character, it all comes down to struggles. If a character doesn't have real struggles

I don't know, but here's a good way to look at it. Watch Wonder Woman and the Batman Begins. In Batman Begins there's a lot of wide shots that show the whole of Gotham and such. In Wonder Woman the shots are at eye level and looking at individual people.

Comic book writer Chuck Dixon, who wrote fantastic female characters, said it best: "Women are more interesting to write about because they're more complex then men. Guys do stuff 'cause "a man's gotta do what a man's gotta do." Even if that's watching Conan O'Brien while picking potato chip crumbs out of your bathrobe. But women are continually examining their personal relationships and striving for some kind of understanding."

 

Well, Chuck Dixon has certainly got those stereotypes down pat.

 

But stereotype in itself is not something to be avoided! The trope or sexism or generalising are still capturing a truth or an essence about something or at least a widely held belief.

Even if the assertion is wrong, it's showing a truth about someone's perception of truth. I.e. a racist is wrong about race but understanding that viewpoint can still tell a truth about the racist- "ye took my juhb" is showing a truth that a man can blame everyone and anyone when presented with loss of his job.

So in that way, Chuck Dixon's stereotyping is definitely telling a truth about some men who behave that way believing that's how men behave, or how society perceives men in general.

 

Sorry I'm not saying you should incorporate the understanding in your writing, I'm saying the understanding has value. How can you subvert stereotypes and generalisation without having a strong basis of what those tropes would be?

But yes if you just write a book just with stereotypes you'd get a disgusting piece of writing.

 

I would take some umbrage with the "a woman would never" speech. I'm a 40-year-old white guy who grew up out in rural Michigan and spent half my life in the military. The way I view and interact with the world is going to be considerably different than say, a Latino guy who was born in LA with crime, drugs, and gangs around him. Even if he escaped the lifestyle, his behaviors would be different than mine. If you write a story with a character like that, I would never say "A man would never" because I am not all men. Personally, I would place that feedback into the permanent file basket. I've been fortunate over the years to have known many strong, independent women who forged their own paths and just as many basket cases who need a fleet of trucks to haul their emotional baggage. I agree with @Catriona Grace, make a believable character first. The gender should align with your story arch, but a believable character with love, hate, desire, and passion or lack thereof is much more important to a story than their gender.

 

I’d say to write them like you would any other major character, while keeping in mind how her environment and experiences shape her, including gendered expectations from society.
Also… just avoid the “Strong Female Character” trope and “Fridged Woman” trope, at least in my opinion.
You could also take a look at r/menwritingwomen to know how to not write her in prose.

 

I agree with this. Women have varying personality types, like all people. You could write a feminine woman who does stereotypically girly things, and a masculine woman, who doesn't behave much like a stereotypical woman, and they could both read as realistic characters. I think the most important thing is their role in the story. What is driving them, what is their relationship to other characters in the story, etc. A woman who exists only to support the male characters or other main characters, or to validate them and their struggles, does not read as a realistic woman, and is one of the most off-putting things for me when reading fiction.

 

As a male novice writer I am not going to claim I am a master at writing believable women (hell I'm not ready to claim I am a master at writing believable men either).

My simple tips to improve at writing more believable female characters.
1. Remember every character is the main character for THEIR story - this isn't just about making women more believable but it is an important step that is often skipped when we write characters who are not like us. The Princess didn't spend her whole life just waiting to be captured and then rescued by the a brave knight. She had thoughts and feelings and desires and hopes and dreams long before plot of the story showed up.
2. Study the behavior females you know in real life - NOTE: for this tip it can not be famous people, or characters, it has to be women you interact with in real life. You don't have to turn one of these women into your character, but start to notice how females you are around act. Try NOT to be bias or judgmental (this is hard when you know them) you have to acknowledge that you are studying them with a 'male POV' which can easily cloud your judgement. But if you can put that aside and study them like you would culture you've never known, you could pick up things that make women feel real.
3. Study female characters in fiction - This one is a bit dangerous, but it could be easier than following girls you know around with a notepad. The danger here is if you study female characters written by men or POORLY written by men or women, you could fall into traps. Study well written women by female authors (some male authors are good here too, but since we're looking for a female voice, I would start there).

I would also say, this is the type of thing that I feel if you're worried about it, it's probably not that big a problem for you. You can obviously work to improve we all can, but the problem is the guy who doesn't think about it. My 2 cents.

 

So, I'm a dude who really loves writing female protagonists. I'm a newbie in this field since I only recently started believing that my writing can actually be enjoyed by someone else than myself. But since I spent a good chunk of my life coming up with dozens of female characters, there's a chance I might actually say something that will prove useful for you.

My "golden rule" in writing women - or any character, for that matter - is to ask myself "how would they feel in this situation". The key here is the "situation" is literary EVERYTHING in this character's life - including their gender. I ask myself "how would this character feel in this body", "how would this character feel about this stereotype that goes on about men/women", "would that gender role cause my character to be sad/happy/proud", etc. I find that in most cases, the biggest differences between genders stem from what kind of gender-specific messages are propagated by the media and how people feel about them - for example, I'm a guy and I wanted to be a preschool teacher. But in Poland, men can't be preschool teachers - well, technically they can, but if I were to apply, I would be branded as a pedophile, since it's uncommon for men in this country to partake in jobs centered around child care.

Also, it's a good idea to keep in mind that there are a lot of small differences people usually don't pay attention to. Others already mentioned the risk of pregnancy that comes with sex. I had a silly situation once when hanging out with my two female friends that I think can help illustrate another rarely mentioned difference - we were in a middle of a big city, late at night, and we drank a lot of soda while walking. At some point, we all collectively decided we really had to pee. I thought it wouldn't be much of a problem - after all, it's late at night, so no one's gonna be mad that I'm just gonna water some tree, right? But my friends didn't have the luxury to think in those categories, and only then did I realize that these kinds of situations are much more challenging for girls. So, we were forced to look for a public restroom that would still be open - and therefore, I was had to think about logistic matters that I never considered before, given my body. So, I think it's a nice thing to keep in mind - diffrent body means slightly diffrent needs.

 

That really sucks. I know a couple of men who are very good with children, much more patient than I am. Fixed gender roles are to the detriment of everybody.

 

Well, I'm technically male, but I'm pretty sure I'm non-binary and I do primarily write female main characters...

It sounds to me like you have the right idea already: Think of them as people first. Just like men, women can have a very wide range of personality traits, interests, attitudes, virtues and flaws. It's a mistake to think there is a "standard type" of girl. You may develop a personal preference for certain character types and end up using them more than others, but that's generally okay as long as you still treat them as people.

I think men who are bad at writing women suffer from this misconception that girls are these mysterious creatures whom men can't understand and - more importantly - that we don't really need to understand them as long as they correspond to our general idea of femininity. This is overthinking it while at the same time not bothering to make an effort.

Dunno, I can only think of the really bad ones you absolutely want to avoid: Treating them as accessories to the male characters, sexually objectifying them, fridging, failing the Bechdel Test, very basic stuff like that.

Well, kind of, but it's pretty damn subtle.

There seems to be some traits that are more typical of women than of men. Some research suggests men are more focused towards "objects and systems" whereas women are more focused towards emotions and how things relate to each other. In problem solving, men tend to be more concerned with immediate practical solutions while women tend to be more concerned with processing the situation and fortifying their morale. One study also suggested that men are more likely to assume an "either or" attitude leading to more extreme decision making. Whether or not these traits are biological in nature or social constructs is very debatable.

That said, you're going to need to keep in mind that these are still just generalizations that are at best based on statistics. So, it's not going to apply equally to all characters. Keeping stuff like this in mind might help to provide some subtle differences in how your women act vs how the men act in certain contexts, but the personality of the character is still going to be more important.

I generally advise against thinking there are certain behavior traits that all women possess and all men lack.

My Little Pony: Friendship Is Magic.

No, I'm dead serious. You don't need to go full brony or anything, but it's worth checking out.

Whatever else it may be, it's a cartoon created by a woman, primarily intended for girls, with an all-female main cast that was pretty much specifically put together for the purpose of teaching young women that there are in fact different ways of being a girl, and that none of them is more correct than the others.

Like, it's okay to be a tomboy, and it's also okay to like pretty dresses, and just because you like pretty dresses that doesn't mean you can't also be a karate black belt or whatever.

Because it's a kid's show, it's all pretty simplified and a bit exaggerated, making it easy to grasp. But it also has a surprising level emotional complexity and character depth. If nothing else, think of it as a basic primer on how to write girls as individuals, just to get the gist of it.

I really think this question is far too general for there to be a good answer. It's going to depend on the character: Is she logical or intuitive, confident or nervous, aggressive or meek, etc? I don't think you can really boil it down to just one defined set of gendered behavior.

 

I'll follow this thread since my WIPs need all the insights I can get in the same areas as the OP
WIP 1 - is a female 1st-P story about a lawyer and a child escaping a fictional country in conflict
WIP 2 - is a fictional all-male story interweaved with a woman's true story
WIP 3 - uses male 1st-P characters to tell the story of an omniscient, offscreen 1st-P female MC
I did try searching these two pages for the word "mother" but it seems it's yet to be mentioned

 

It's useful to dig into the idea of male and female 'traits' that are a product of upbringing, rather than biology.

For example, are there any jobs you avoid doing, because you've been raised to think that's the opposite sex's job?

This can range from my mother's obsession with 'always let the boy/man open the door for you' to 'I won't learn to service my car, or repair plumbing, or mow the grass' because those are 'men' jobs. The 'helpless Hannah' syndrome.

There are still many men who refuse to do housework—despite the women of the household ALSO holding jobs outside the home. These men may, when pressured, do housework—but they do it so badly or so infrequently they know the wife, daughter, mother or female roommate will eventually step in, and relieve them of this unpleasant chore.

The role of passive/aggressive behavior can work for both sexes. See if you can spot this behaviour in yourself, or in others you know. And ask yourself where you (or they) got that notion of specialised jobs.

Obviously biology WILL enter the picture at some point, and will influence SOME things we do. But do we carry this too far? I think, over the centuries, we have done just that.

You can use this kind of cultural awareness when you write your characters. Do they rebel against what is expected of them? Do they boast about doing the jobs that are normally relegated to the opposite sex? Do they simply jump in and get any job done that needs doing without fanfare? Or maybe, secretly, they are comfortable in the knowledge that 'nasty' or 'difficult' or 'boring' jobs will be done by the other sex—if they only wait around long enough, and feign helplessness? Or maybe they are only too happy to jump into their expected role and show off a bit? Or conditioned to take on the expected roles, despite feeling resentment?

How does society view them, in these different incarnations? With approval? With disapproval? How do changing times affect the way these gender-attributed behaviours are seen?

 

Caution is hammered into every girls head from the moment they can understand words.

On the whole women are far more cautious than men in everyday life so your female protagonist hears a sus noise in the alley she's walking next to in the middle of the night with no one else around?? Yeah she's not going to check that out even if she had a group of friends with her, she's speeding up her pace and looking for civilisation or to get to her destination as fast as possible whilst also subtly checking that she's not being followed, subtly so as to not tip off any potential mugger/rapist that she knows they're there and that they now have to speed up whatever violent crap they're thinking of doing.

Some weirdo flashing their lights at her whilst she's parked in an empty parking lot, she's not getting out to confront anyone even if she's got a friend there.

Women are taught to be careful about who they're around and who else is around them at all times.

She's out drinking and loses sight of her drink, she's ordering a new drink not finding and finishing the old one, she now can't guarantee that someone hasn't spiked it.

Unless she's in a relatively small town where everyone knows everyone she's likely not going on that late night run unless it's through populated well lit areas. She's not taking that shortcut through the park after dark.

Just pretty much any action a girl takes in a horror movie an actual girl would never do in real life. She's not calling out into the darkness if anyone is there when she hear's a noise at night, instead she'll be turning on every light as she passes by, phone in hand ready to call either the cops or a friend and checking every room silently.

Even if your female character is super strong she will still have the same lessons ingrained in her head that she's not safe alone and she's especially not safe alone around men.

 

So, this is called a caricature. There is some resemblance to the truth in the post, but it's exaggerated beyond belief. If you had a woman acting like this in your book without a really good reason, your character would be one dimensional and come off as unrealistic, because she is unrealistic. This post makes it sound like women walk around like scared little animals, and we really don't. I don't go jogging with my keys, absolutely afraid that at any moment a rapist is going to spring out of nowhere and grab me. If I were really that afraid, I wouldn't be jogging in that area to begin with! Lol.

The whole logic of this posts runs under the theory that all women are exactly the same. They aren't. It just depends on the individual personality of the female you're writing. I've never chucked a drink out. Ever. ***GASP***. No, because the settings I was in, I was with very close friends of mine, both male and female. So I never had to chuck a drink.

 

So you think about and control your environment rather than your actions then?

 

I don't understand the question.

 

Must it be one or the other?

Nonsense. I worked in a field that was 99% men at the time and never felt unsafe around them. Even the ones who disliked having a woman on their crew didn't physically threaten me, and most got used to me being there.

My parents taught me to be cautious and aware of my environment but never stopped me from hiking, biking, or traveling alone. My father, a law enforcement officer who was well aware of the world's dangers, said, "This is how to disable an attacker long enough to get away, and if you can't get away, this is how you stand and fight." They taught my brother the same things.

Frankly, any person (male, female, or other) who goes alone to investigate a suspicious noise in a dark alley instead of continuing on with heightened awareness is being stupid.