Alternatives to a sword

Discussion in 'Research' started by EllBeEss, Apr 24, 2014.

  1. Jack Asher

    Jack Asher Banned Contributor

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    I was learning dagger fighting and as a joke someone had the titanium spork the had found on thinkgeek.com.

    Interesting thing about the titanium spork, you can't eat ice cream with it. The titanium conducts the cold to well and the whole implement feels like a fucking ice cube.
     
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  2. Nilfiry

    Nilfiry Senior Member

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    Well, that is also attributed to the fact they they were pretty much over-polished, but I do not disagree that they seem to have questionable durability. Still, it is a viable option depending on its usage and how the user fights. Parrying can also be done without putting too much stress on the blade, so durability is not a big issue unless the user plans on directly blocking a lot of blows with the darn thing.
     
  3. ChaosReigns

    ChaosReigns Ov The Left Hand Path Contributor

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    this comment wins on so many levels im actually crying with laughter... anyway, back on subject again, i have a feeling the staff was mentioned earlier in this conversation but may i bring you to a point here, in Japan there are 2 different types of Staff, the Bo, which generally speaking is between 5 and 6 feet long, and the Jo which is somewhere between 3 and 4 feet long, now those things can, generally speaking, be anything from a stick to an ornately carved, ridiculously heavy hunk of wood.

    and was the Shruikin or throwing star mentioned? there are several versions of those, and also, Deer Horn Knives, more of a concealment weapon, but would be possible for a younger female to wield.
     
  4. ARMAScholar

    ARMAScholar New Member

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    I don't know a particularly large amount about Javanese weapons, but I would imagine a kris would be about as martially useful as any other 20+ inch knife. (That is to say, very). It is certainly not a 20+ inches of steel I would want shoved in my face or soft bits anymore than any other bladed weapon.

    Somebody at one point mentioned a pike. Pikes are about 15-20+ feet long. They aren't really something you are going to carry around on a day to day basis.

    In regards to length of longswords, remember the early modern period doesn't have any such thing as standardized factory made lengths. Everything is made by local craftsmen, and is generally made to the specifications of the customer. If your main character finds her longsword too long, she simply gets a shorter longsword.

    In regards to single handed swords. Some arming swords I have handled really felt like basically nothing was there, particularly some accurate recreations of Anglo-Saxon and Viking age swords which felt like children's toys to me. Children's toys that is, until you realize you are waiving around 30 some inches of steel that can lop arms off. I see no reason why a 15 year old cannot use one.

    Because of their long length rapiers actually get kind of difficult to hold out and extend for long periods of time. Some of the positions you are in when rapier fencing are also sometimes more elongated and outstretched than for other single handed swords, which requires a certain degree of muscular endurance. As weird as it sounds I would vote for rapiers as actually the hardest of the above mentioned swords for a smaller person to use effectively. Though there is no reason they could not, they would just have to put in some effort. I actually find them more challenging than arming swords. This is not to say that they aren't extremely agile and respond to motions of the hand and body with a great deal of grace, but again rapiers are long. They are not short weapons. I do not know where people ever got the idea they were short. The entire concept of a rapier is basically a super long thin spike that keeps your enemy far away from you at the end of your point.

    This rapier is 48 in, basically as long as a longsword:

    http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/24860

    Another one at 45 in:

    http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/23041

    This one is 'short' at 43 inches:

    http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/35679

    Generally speaking, I haven't heard of rapiers running under 40 inches. Again as stated above, being that everything is made by local craftsmen there is no reason why she can't have a smaller overall length weapon made for her, depending on her social class and available funds.

    Now in the late 17th century and 18th century there was a thing similar to a rapier called a smallsword:

    http://www.metmuseum.org/collection/the-collection-online/search/27723

    These were generally not longer than the user's leg. Since this is a fantasy story you could hypothetically have a smallsword like weapon. But given that we've already established the character could use an arming sword, longsword, or rapier, there really is no reason for her to use a smallsword, especially given the considerable advantages of those other weapons over the smallsword.

    Returning back momentarily to what the most likely weapon for her to have would be however, I still feel it would more likely be a messer, hauswehr, long dagger, staff weapon or something similar. But again there is no reason she can't use the above mentioned weapons.

    My thoughts, hope they are helpful.
     
  5. PensiveQuill

    PensiveQuill Senior Member

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    Wait, we have a 15yr old female right? What are her natural advantages going to be in any kind of fight. It wont be strength, size or reach. Not by virtue of her body anyway. If my life depends on it I'm going to want to fight on terms advantageous to me. Things like speed, agility, distance and stealth. Getting into a sword fight would not be my choice if I could help it. I will likely be outskilled, outsized and weaker than my opponent 99% of the time. My greatest weapon would be guile, intelligence and stealth, perhaps even the ability to flee and hide effectively. At all costs I want to keep any predators at a distance. So I would look at potential weapons (maybe even an invented one) that allowed me to run most of the time.

    I would probably pack one good sharp knife that is easily concealed and quickly handled, some ordinary object I could use in interesting ways. And a lot of intelligence to stay one step ahead.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2014
  6. ARMAScholar

    ARMAScholar New Member

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    I was more pointing out that a 15 year old female is fully capable of using the weapons mentioned above. Not that she is going to want to go out of her way to get in fights. I am merely discussing the technical characteristics of the weapons themselves, and whether or not those characteristics allow a 15 year old female to use them. I believe I have demonstrated that she can. I think it up to the writer of the story to decide what choices her character makes, or what skills she relies on.
     
  7. PensiveQuill

    PensiveQuill Senior Member

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    My post was in response to earlier posts, not necessarily yours. It was also a thinking out loud moment in which I was just exploring the possibilities given by the OP and how I would think about this type of character situation. I don't think anyone was trying to tell the OP what to do with her character specifically. This thread is a giant brainstorming session, no?
     
  8. ChaosReigns

    ChaosReigns Ov The Left Hand Path Contributor

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    to be honest this threads helping me here as well, but im still confused here, i know there may have been mention of bows, but surely some of them would have a too higher tension weight for a 15 year old girl to use?
     
  9. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    The pen, of course!
     
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  10. Vandor76

    Vandor76 Senior Member

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    Something poisonous? Blowpipe? It's cheap, efficient and she can collect all parts in the forest.
     
  11. EllBeEss

    EllBeEss Senior Member

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    I'm finding it really insightful continuing to read everyone's input :)

    Just putting it out there that I sorted this out a few months ago by giving the character different weapons depending on the context. In a lot of situations where the girl is trying not to draw attention to herself she tends to carry only a quarterstaff, a few knives and whatever improvised weapons she can lay her hands on when the need arises. Later on she does get her hands on a longsword and gets taught how to use it effectively as well as a bow.

    Some of you mentioned how she would have to use play to her strengths and be smart if it ever did come to a fight. She does try to avoid violence wherever she can and when she has to fight gives herself the best advantage she can.
     

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