Being Marketable

What lesson? Some people see your point and agree, others disagree. Both are okay, in my mind. It's called sharing opinions, right? So keep posting!

 

Get a grip folks. RomanticRose is a working writer - a person who gets paid for writing. How many other posters on this thread can say the same?

Guess what? People who write instruction manuals, commercials and advertising copy are also writers. Real, working writers. Show me where it's written that in order to be a card-carrying, honest-to-goodness writer every word has to be born from the heart, nurtured by some spiritual muse, and expressed lovingly through the keyboard decorated with flowers and faeries.

It's easy to hold fast to noble, artistic, literary vision - just as long as you're happy knowing those words will likely live forever - in a dust-covered box under your bed.

If you want to be paid for your words, you need to understand the business aspect of writing.

I've been around writing boards long enough to know that one shouldn't toot one's own horn from the get-go. But what the heck. I wrote an article a few years ago that's germane to this discussion and posted it on my website.

Rose, don't regret your participation on boards like these. Starry-eyed newbies need to brush up against reality now and again.

 

I am far from a starry-eyed newbie. I know the realities. I'm also being true to myself.

But the attitude Rose is presenting to me is "I don't like the genre, but who cares because I'm getting paid?" Not once has she shown that she values anything about what she is doing but the money she gets. Manuals are hardly an artistic endevour, but romance novels are, and everyone I know who is involved in the creative aspect of advertising enjoys it.

If all you care about is getting paid, be a accountant.

 

Sorry if I'm butting in here, people, but I think there's a problem with misunderstanding Rose's point. Looking at her earlier post on page 1, she's saying she's 2 authors--one who writes what some might consider crap; but it pays her bills--and one who writes general fiction even if it never gets published. The first kind of writing is what she doesn't care about; she's just doing it to exist--no problem there. The second kind of writing she does care about, and she's doing it, not for the $, but for her own enjoyment.

Rei: Just wondering if you're thinking that she's saying write whatever sells, period, rather than what I think is her actual point. That is, that she writes what sells as her "job", but then writes what pleases her and not necessarily what sells (in other words, what many here in WF say they do), as her hobby.

 

The point is, she said herself that she doesn't even like romance novels. She is only writing them for the money. That's the point I am critisizing. Everyone I've ever met who writes for newspapers and magazines likes them. I knew a man who wrote a technical manual. He liked the subject he was writing about. I already said that everyone I know who's involved in the creative aspect of advertising chose it because they like it. That's the difference. If your first goal is money, the last thing anyone should do is get into a field that is notorious for not earning good money.

I don't deny that I'm being harsh, but I have to be true to myself. It's not ignorance, Frank, it's values.

 

There are probably hundreds of talented writers who will be rejected at every turn, while crap writers like Dan Brown, Paolini and Stephenaie Meyer are best sellers. Talent means very little to publishers, studio executives, what have you. Actually, I'll go a step further and say talent means nothing in the business aspect of writing. It's all about sticking to what's popular, sticking to what's controversial. Writers who become successful on talent are in the vast minority.

Me? I can't write marketable, it's simply not in my ability to do so, and even if I could learn, I don't think I could bring myself to do it. So I will likely never see a work of mine on the shelves. Fine. Life is not nice to writers, simple fact.

 

Who exactly is being disrespected or being ill served by RomanticRose's romance novels?

The reader? How? The publisher purchases the rights to RomantcRose's novels. The publisher publishes them. The reader purchases them, apparently enjoys them enough as the publisher is willing to purchase more of RomanticRose's romance fiction because there are readers out there for it. So, how is the reader being poorly treated?

It's a simple contract between the author and reader (with the publisher as the go between). Author provides a novel and the reader pays for it. If both walk away satisfied, what's wrong with that? In the end the reader is in the driver's seat, as if they are not satisfied, they don't buy and the author's work, the result being the publisher won't offer to publish that author's future works.

Maybe I am incorrect, but my read of the situation is nothing more than an author who has some skill and talent making a living, not necessarily in the genre of choice for the moment, but improving in skill and marketability and working toward opening doors on down the road. Anything wrong with that? Why isn't that writer being true to him or herself? Why does that author lack values?

Is it that different from someone who wants to be a contractor building homes some day? He has to start at the bottom, carrying bricks and cleaning up, then doing dry wall installation, then framing and masonry etc. until he has the skill and ability and connections and experience to be a successful contractor owning his own construction company, one that people would hire? Is he not being true to himself when he does the jobs he doesn't necessarily like yet uses his skills and knowledge while working toward his ultimate goal?

Should the owner of the new home be less than happy because some of the construction workers were not in love with their job, but still did a good job--what was expected of them and got paid for doing it?

Terry

 

It's a matter of professionalism. It's like an unspoken hippocratic oath. Just as a doctor will always strive to do no harm, but won't always succeed, an author is expected to always say something that is worth saying. Even in a harlequin romance there should be something that is inherently good and worth reading, and if even the author doesn't believe there's any redeeming qualities in the work, then all the people who do have something to say are going to get angry at them for squandering the opportunities that author has that the teeming masses would kill to have.

 

Professionalism is delivering the product that the customer requested. I don't think there is any good analogy with the Hippocratic oath. We aren't talking about lives in the balance here.

 

This is an interesting debate....

On one side, you've got Rei, etc. saying that for writing to be good, honest, it must come from the heart. Otherwise, it's crap. Even if the writing is done "skillfully" it is ultimately hollow since the author didn't care about the story she was crafting.

* Writing with the goal of getting paid means you are a selfish writer.
* Writing for the love of your story means you are a good writer.

On the other, you've got RomaticRose, etc. saying that writing is good so long as it finds readers and publishers who are willing to pay for it. If the story pleases the audience, it is worthwhile, even if the author didn't personally care much for it.

* Getting paid to write stories means you are a good writer.
* Getting paid to write stories you love means you are a lucky writer.

I personally think every writer should consider his or her audience. A good writer is going to understand the best practices for the type of writing he or she wishes to pursue and is going to follow those guidelines to his success or failure. Journalism, technical writing, screenwriting, short stories, biographies, novels, etc. all have certain dos and don'ts. Even fiction, broken down into genres like whodunit, sword & sorcery, romance, etc. have their own general rules about what makes a good story.

If you want to write a murder mystery, like something by Agatha Christie, you're not going to reveal the murderer in the first twenty pages. The whole point of the story is about figuring out who the killer is. Romance, I'm sure, has rules for how it's laid out. It takes an understanding of your genre to write a well-crafted novel that conforms to your readers' expectations.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to the reader. If the reader is satisfied, then job well done. And if you're getting paid for it, even better. If you're getting paid for it *and* you enjoy what you're writing, then you win!

 

Delivering what the customer requested isn't professionalism. It's competence. The professional gives what is asked for, and what is needed. If the customer asks for something that is good, the professional gives what is great. If the customer asks for something that's great, the professional delivers something that is great and he delivers it early. The professional puts in effort disproportionate to the reward gained because the satisfaction of getting the job done perfectly is its own reward.

The analogy is perfectly appropriate. The only difference is a matter of degree. Physicians have a specific oath because of the high degree of responsibility, but every activity has it's own standards. A drafter will take the extra time to track down possible problems with a drawing even if it's not necessarily in his job to check that particular aspect because his name is on that drawing and he wants it to be perfect. The most professional teachers I've ever known will go the extra mile to make sure their students understand a concept even if it means they have to spend money out of their own pockets to get the necessary supplies.

Writing is not on the same level as medicine, but there is still something valuable at stake. Instead of lives, ideas are at stake.

Edit:RR I hope you don't take this as a personal attack. I can't say one way or the other what your degree of professionalism is and I don't have any objections against writing for money. I was answering the question of why it's more than just an issue of writing for money or delivering what's asked for.

 

I find it amusing in the extreme that some here deem themselves worthy of judging others -- that they can determine what people "should" do if they want to make some money.

 

Likewise, Frank....

How is it that writing from the heart cannot translate into a business oppertunity? All that i was really trying to suggest in creating this topic is that a person must have a 'business model' - in the same way as a character or plot model, if one wishes to go from the small-time to the big-time....

 

sorites's post just above is the best one here, imo... brilliantly put, sor!...

yes, and that includes even those writers whose audience only appears in the mirror...

 

I feel that a lot of novels are just "tossed out" with less actual effort put into them because; A) the writer doesn't care too much for story, and just wants to get it done with, and B) even though it may be a substandard book, people will run off to buy it because; its in a genre they really like, follows a series they like or many other reasons.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if J.K. Rowling decided that she didn't care about the last 2 or 3 books and it showed in the writing, we still would have not seen a drop in sales of those books. Furthermore, a publisher would publish those books over another novel that was-for the lack of a better word-superior, and well developed simply because the author is well-know, and it will sell better, and we remain clueless.

 

The part in red, isn't that determination made by the reader? And each reader makes that determination for him or herself? If X number of people buy a book and then sign up for the mailing list to find out when the next title by that author is going to hit the shelves, doesn't that imply at least some of them found something 'worth reading'?

I didn't bring them up, but someone mentioned D. Brown and S. Meyer. Their books really didn't do anything for me, but possibly says more about me than it does about the books. Obviously, scads of people disagreed with me. They connected with an audience.

I'm okay with the lable of competence. By definition, I'm already a professional.

Actually this thread has solved a problem for me. I'm never sure how to answer fan mail, but now I have the perfect form response.

Dear Reader,

Thank you for your kind words, but I fear you are much mistaken. You could not possibly have enjoyed {insert title here}. I say this only because I did not actually have a literary-emotive orgasm while I was writing it.

Best wishes in your future endeavors.
RR

 

That is epic! LOL!!

 

For the Win!

 

Yes it is, but if the author, who has dug much deeper into the story than any reader ever will, can't find something worth reading, then how much of a chance is there that anyone else will? The number of people who read a work by an author who doesn't care is the baseline for the quality of the author, but it's only the bottom of what you could actually do.

It's not a matter of "your writing is worse than mine because I have something to say," it's "your work isn't as good as it could be if you had something to say." And nobody likes to see someone treat lightly an opportunity that is only available to a few.

Edit: The attitude causing this argument essentially boils down to one thought. It's an offensive one, but it's still there. "You could have done more, and if I had your opportunities I would have done more."

 

I heard that to get anyone to believe you, you have to believe it yourself.

I find that the writing flows most freely when I personally associate with my characters and I feel what they feel.

In the same regards, I think that readers have a similar experience. They are most interested when they most associate with the characters they are reading about.

That association creates attraction and bonding and people actually feel like they have a relationship with the character. They feel as if the character is someone that they know in real life. This makes then want more of that character.

I think it was already mentioned, but basically the more emotional reaction you can draw from a reader, the more "marketable" you are.

 

Then why do people buy, not just my books, but a good portion of romance novels out there? Not a lot of us talk about it, but a reasonable percentage of them are writing for the money. (Yes we do have groups, on-line and in real life.)

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Most romance writers already know it's not high art. It's not fricking supposed to be.

I don't treat it lightly. I take it quite seriously. It's my job.

I love good quality, well-prepared food, but sometimes I just need mac n cheese. And not the gourmet type that you make a cheese sauce from scratch and brown it in the oven. Nope, sometimes I need the stuff in the blue box with the packet of radioactive orange powder.

If I get to decide what I want for my last meal, it will be an omelette made by my friend, Ronny. His makes the best omelettes in the world. Strangely, though, he can't abide eggs in any form -- just doesn't like them. Does that mean his omelettes are disrespectful because he won't eat them?

 

Wow. The arrogance on this thread is unbelievable...
Writing is a job. A job that involves artistic expression and passion and emotion, but a job nonetheless.
In the case of writing romance novels, they are not written to change to world, and the people writing, publishing and reading them know that. They are made to entertain a group of readers looking for a particular type of story. They have very strict guidelines and heavily imposed expectations set upon them. A writer who can take these specific rules and guidelines, and within that create a story that is enjoyable, popular and succesful takes a certain talent, as any other job does. If you excel at marketing but your passion is playing golf, there's nothing wrong with making a living from one and pursuing the other in free time. Writing for a living and writing out of passion are two very different things - while it would be nice if they weren't, the truth is only a very select few are in this situation (just as there are only a very select number of golfers who can make it a profession). To belittle someone because they don't approach their job with the same attitude they apply to their genuine passion is ridiculous. I believe the poster has said, repeatedly, that the romance novels are a means for her to further her writing of novels she is genuinely passionate about - why do people have a problem with this? I just can't understand why anyone would think that writing like that is selfish? Is it selfish to go to work every morning to provide for yourself and your family? Because that is what she is doing.
Its easy to get pretentious and pretend that we are all artists and will always remain true to our artistic integrity in everything we do, but seriously? No one is buying that. It would be nice if we lived in a world where that was possible, but the simple truth is we don't. We need money to survive, and the best way to make money is to do what you are good at - if that is writing novels that you don't necessarily enjoy, but still succeed and bring pleasure to readers, is that really as bad a thing as some people are making it out to be? And if you think it is, then maybe its time to join us in the real world...

 

Keep it friendly

 

The 'opportunities' are out there for everyone here. For everyone posting in and/or reading this thread, for everyone on this forum--including me. The opportunity exists for everyone. Go out and 'do more.'

It's easy to sit back and say, "If I were in your place I'd..."
It's hard to actually get to that place--and that's the task, where the hard work is. To get there. And maybe for more than a few it's impossible.

Still, I suspect, like in so many things in life, once one is there, travels that road and finally gets there, their perspective changes a bit. I'm not saying that they become somebody else or their whole attitude changes, but experience offers insights that one can be otherwise blind to.

Terry

 

This is a fascinating thread to stumble upon!

I have to scratch my head reading a lot of it. Why, if RomanticRose considers what other people want, and tries her hardest to create it for them, would that be considered selfish?

If a talented, passionate writer were to write only things that no one wants to read, I would not necesarily say that was selfish. But if that writer were to then desire a podium... Maybe I should not explain what I would think of that person in my first post here.